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Thread: phonetics

  1. #1
    Lenka is offline Senior Member
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    Default phonetics

    I was told an interesting word (sentence):

    "Jamaica" is read the same as "Did you make her?" (in the US, if you don't pronounce too well, I guess)

    How do you call this phenomenon? Can it be considered a homophone?

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    Default Re: phonetics

    Homophones are words that sound the same, while their spelling is different (e.g. bear-bare, flour-flower)
    If their spelling is also the same, they are homonyms [e.g. bank (of a river)-bank (the financial institution)]

    Regarding "Jamaica" and "Did you make her?", I guess you can pronounce them the same, with a lot of imagination

  3. #3
    Lenka is offline Senior Member
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    Default Re: phonetics

    Quote Originally Posted by Mariner View Post
    Homophones are words that sound the same, while their spelling is different (e.g. bear-bare, flour-flower)
    If their spelling is also the same, they are homonyms [e.g. bank (of a river)-bank (the financial institution)]

    Regarding "Jamaica" and "Did you make her?", I guess you can pronounce them the same, with a lot of imagination
    Well, I wouldn't pronounce them the same at all! But nowadays, when I can here the terrible slang words and speech of those strange people... I do believe they do read it like this.

    Is there something called "homographes" in English?

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    Philly is offline Senior Member
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    Default Re: phonetics

    Quote Originally Posted by Lenka View Post
    Well, I wouldn't pronounce them the same at all! But nowadays, when I can here the terrible slang words and speech of those strange people... I do believe they do read it like this.
    Which strange people are you referring to exactly? It's quite true that in informal spoken (not read) AmE, the words "Did you" sound the same as "Ja". After that, the rest isn't really much of a stretch of the imagination.
    .
    Quote Originally Posted by Lenka View Post
    Is there something called "homographes" in English?
    There is a definition for homograph right here:
    http://www.usingenglish.com/glossary/homograph.html
    .

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    Lenka is offline Senior Member
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    Default Re: phonetics

    Quote Originally Posted by Philly View Post
    There is a definition for homograph right here:
    http://www.usingenglish.com/glossary/homograph.html
    .
    Anyway, looked the word up (wind - from the link) in my dictionary and it says the pronounciation of both of the connotations is the same...
    It would mean it is a polysemy (I don't know how it's called in English... in Czech we call it "polysémie", actually...), wouldn't it?

  6. #6
    BobK's Avatar
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    Default Re: phonetics

    Quote Originally Posted by Philly View Post
    Which strange people are you referring to exactly? It's quite true that in informal spoken (not read) AmE, the words "Did you" sound the same as "Ja". After that, the rest isn't really much of a stretch of the imagination.
    .

    ...
    .
    You can't take all the blame, Philly There's a well-worn British English Music Hall joke:


    1st speaker I say I say I say. My wife's gone to the West Indies.
    2nd speaker Jamaica?
    1st speaker No, she went of her own accord.

    This spawned a number of variations, such as:


    1st speaker I say I say I say. My wife's gone to the East Indies.
    2nd speaker Jakarta?
    1st speaker No, I took her in a wheel-barrow.

    Generally, in informal speech (that is, not really rough, but just slightly 'unbuttoned') "Did you?" and "Do you?" are articulated as /ʤǝ/ .

    b

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    Thumbs up Re: phonetics

    Quote Originally Posted by Lenka View Post
    Anyway, looked the word up (wind - from the link) in my dictionary and it says the pronounciation of both of the connotations is the same...
    It would mean it is a polysemy (I don't know how it's called in English... in Czech we call it "polysémie", actually...), wouldn't it?
    "Polysemy" is OK Lenka: http://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/polysemy

    b

    ps - but maybe there's a difference of register. I used to use it when I was studying linguistics, but the fact that it's not in the Using English glossary could suggest that it's not normally used in ELT circles.
    Last edited by BobK; 11-Oct-2006 at 11:50. Reason: Added ps

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    Lenka is offline Senior Member
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    Default Re: phonetics

    Quote Originally Posted by BobK View Post
    You can't take all the blame, Philly There's a well-worn British English Music Hall joke:


    1st speaker I say I say I say. My wife's gone to the West Indies.

    2nd speaker Jamaica?

    1st speaker No, she went of her own accord.

    This spawned a number of variations, such as:


    1st speaker I say I say I say. My wife's gone to the East Indies.

    2nd speaker Jakarta?

    1st speaker No, I took her in a wheel-barrow.

    Generally, in informal speech (that is, not really rough, but just slightly 'unbuttoned') "Did you?" and "Do you?" are articulated as /ʤǝ/ .

    b
    Hmmm... I can't understand the joke. Could you explain it, please?
    I don't understand the underlined expressions... What should "Jakarta" mean here?

    Quote Originally Posted by BobK View Post
    "Polysemy" is OK Lenka: http://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/polysemy

    b

    ps - but maybe there's a difference of register. I used to use it when I was studying linguistics, but the fact that it's not in the Using English glossary could suggest that it's not normally used in ELT circles.

    I can't understand how you can say that term "polysemy" isn't normally used... How do you call the words with more meanings (and the grammatical phenomenon), then? It's not "homography", apparently!

  9. #9
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    Default Re: phonetics

    Quote Originally Posted by Lenka View Post
    Hmmm... I can't understand the joke. Could you explain it, please?
    I don't understand the underlined expressions... What should "Jakarta" mean here?
    Oh dear. I've confused things for you. Sorry Lenka.

    In the jokes, "Jamaica" is misunderstood as "Did you make her?"
    and "Jakarta" is misunderstood as "Did you cart her?" [take her in a cart].
    "Jamaica" is an island in the West Indies (now more widely called 'the Caribbean"). "Jakarta" is an island in the East Indies.

    Quote Originally Posted by Lenka View Post

    I can't understand how you can say that term "polysemy" isn't normally used... How do you call the words with more meanings (and the grammatical phenomenon), then? It's not "homography", apparently!
    I didn't say that, exactly. I said that I had only heard it used in one particular academic context. That, combined with its absence from the Using English glossary, made me consider the possibility that it's not widely used in ELT circles (where I'm a newcomer). It's best to use 'homography' here; generally, if someone posts a link to a Using English reference page, trust them!

    b

  10. #10
    Lenka is offline Senior Member
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    Default Re: phonetics

    Quote Originally Posted by BobK View Post
    Oh dear. I've confused things for you. Sorry Lenka.

    In the jokes, "Jamaica" is misunderstood as "Did you make her?"
    and "Jakarta" is misunderstood as "Did you cart her?" [take her in a cart].
    "Jamaica" is an island in the West Indies (now more widely called 'the Caribbean"). "Jakarta" is an island in the East Indies.
    "Did you cart her?" That's what I wanted to know, actually. Thanks... Now, I understand.

    Quote Originally Posted by BobK View Post
    I didn't say that, exactly. I said that I had only heard it used in one particular academic context. That, combined with its absence from the Using English glossary, made me consider the possibility that it's not widely used in ELT circles (where I'm a newcomer). It's best to use 'homography' here; generally, if someone posts a link to a Using English reference page, trust them!

    b
    Of course, I do believe it, but, you know... it just seems to me that homographs are a little different. At least in Czech. Anyway, it can be different in English and I am not a native speaker, so I do believe you, definitely.

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