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    #1

    Is there a word shurub in Engish ?

    Why does the phrase shut up sounds like shurub ?

  1. MikeNewYork's Avatar
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    #2

    Re: Is there a word shurub in Engish ?

    Quote Originally Posted by brokenlove View Post
    Why does the phrase shut up sounds like shurub ?
    It shouldn't. Was the speaker's mouth full of food?

  2. Mariner's Avatar

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    #3

    Re: Is there a word shurub in Engish ?

    "Shut up" could sound to you like "shurub" in AmE, at least in some varieties, because of the presense of a "flap" instead of /t/ or /d/ sound in the middles position of words such as writer and rider, latter and ladder, shutter and shudder. An American speaker would most probably pronounce the above mentioned pairs the same.

    There's a joke actually, about a student who heard in a lecture about "the importance of Plato", and then talked about the importance of "play-dough"

    As for the final /b/ instead of /p/, I guess it would greatly depend on the next phoneme. If the phrase was "Shut up, I say", with a vowel following right after, the final /p/ could have voiced qualities that would make it sound like a /b/


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    #4

    Re: Is there a word shurub in Engish ?

    Quote Originally Posted by brokenlove View Post
    Why does the phrase shut up sounds like shurub ?
    Usually it's spelt "shurrup". This is a colloquial effect of sloppy speech often found in uneducated English.

  3. rewboss's Avatar

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    #5

    Re: Is there a word shurub in Engish ?

    Quote Originally Posted by Anglika View Post
    Usually it's spelt "shurrup". This is a colloquial effect of sloppy speech often found in uneducated English.
    Ouch.

    It's a non-standard form very common in parts of northern England, especially the Manchester area, and occasionally used by some educated speakers.

    Be careful not to put value judgements on this kind of thing, as you're batting on a very sticky wicket if you do. Remember that, for example, our silent "gh" in words like "daughter" and "night" came about by a similar process and was no doubt seen at one time as "sloppy" and "uneducated".


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    #6

    Re: Is there a word shurub in Engish ?

    Sorry - however, it is still an ellision and not usually well-regarded.


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    #7

    Re: Is there a word shurub in Engish ?

    Sorry - however, it is still an ellision and not usually well-regarded.

  4. MikeNewYork's Avatar
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    #8

    Re: Is there a word shurub in Engish ?

    Quote Originally Posted by Anglika View Post
    Sorry - however, it is still an ellision and not usually well-regarded.
    I agree. There are many people in New York with terrible diction (different from accents). This often hurts them when seeking employment and/or promotions.

  5. rewboss's Avatar

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    #9

    Re: Is there a word shurub in Engish ?

    Ellision? You mean "elision", don't you?

    Yes, it is an elision, and all dialects, including standard British and American English, have them (think of all our apostrophes).

    But it's too simplistic to say that it's "not well-regarded". It is very well-regarded by some people; indeed, if you mixed with certain people in a certain setting and said "shut up" in perfect BBC English, you would probably be mocked.

    This doesn't necessarily mean that people should use non-standard dialect forms all the time. Of course, if you are applying for any kind of job that involves more than manual labour, you'd be advised to use forms closer to the agreed standard, which in Britain is an artificial dialect based loosely on the dialects around Oxford and parts of London; and in America is similar to a dialect spoken in parts of Iowa, Nebraska and Illinois.

    These dialects are considered to be "superior" not because they are better than any other dialect but because they became the de facto national standard by historical accident: "General American" because radio broadcasters preferred to hire speakers with that accent; British RP because it was spoken in and around the important institutions of government and seats of learning.

    As it is, speakers should use the standard dialect, or as close to it as they can manage, to communicate with people from other areas; if you are, for example, a secretary, speaking in Scots English to a client from Basingstoke would not be good for your career.

    All that aside, you would be well advised not to utter the phrase "shut up" in a job interview, regardless of what dialect you do it in.

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    #10

    Re: Is there a word shurub in Engish ?

    I'm not sure that the choice of certain pronunciation patterns was accidental. In my view, "general American" (Midwest in origin) was chosen because it was a very neutral accent and easier to understand than Brooklynese, Southern drawls, Bostoner, and Texan, for example.

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