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Thread: moral damage?

  1. #21
    MikeNewYork's Avatar
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    Re: moral damage?

    Quote Originally Posted by curmudgeon View Post
    by 'we' do you mean the majority? or is it the royal 'we'
    I mean 100% of the country. Freedom of Speech is enshrined in our Constitution. If you're nice I'll send you a copy.

  2. #22
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    Re: moral damage?

    Quote Originally Posted by MikeNewYork View Post
    I mean 100% of the country. Freedom of Speech is enshrined in our Constitution. If you're nice I'll send you a copy.
    Is the freedom of speech the first ammendment? and the fifth? the right to remain silent?

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    Re: moral damage?

    Quote Originally Posted by Avalon View Post
    Is the freedom of speech the first ammendment? and the fifth? the right to remain silent?
    That's pretty good.

    Actually, Freedom of Speech is part of the First Amendment. The right to remain silent after arrest is part of the Miranda judicial decision. The Fifth Amendment deals with due process, including the right of defendents not to testify against themselves:

    No person shall be held to answer for a capital, or otherwise infamous crime, unless on a presentment or indictment of a Grand Jury, except in cases arising in the land or naval forces, or in the Militia, when in actual service in time of War or public danger; nor shall any person be subject for the same offense to be twice put in jeopardy of life or limb; nor shall be compelled in any criminal case to be a witness against himself, nor be deprived of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law; nor shall private property be taken for public use, without just compensation.

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    Re: moral damage?

    Quote Originally Posted by MikeNewYork View Post
    That's pretty good.

    Actually, Freedom of Speech is part of the First Amendment. The right to remain silent after arrest is part of the Miranda judicial decision. The Fifth Amendment deals with due process, including the right of defendents not to testify against themselves:

    No person shall be held to answer for a capital, or otherwise infamous crime, unless on a presentment or indictment of a Grand Jury, except in cases arising in the land or naval forces, or in the Militia, when in actual service in time of War or public danger; nor shall any person be subject for the same offense to be twice put in jeopardy of life or limb; nor shall be compelled in any criminal case to be a witness against himself, nor be deprived of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law; nor shall private property be taken for public use, without just compensation.
    I didnīt fully get it, why on earth would a defendant testify against him/herself? I have this game called scruples, which presents dillemas for the players to guess each otherīs answers by choosing cards ( yes, no ,depends and one of the cards is the fifth amendment card) that may be used when a player challenges your answer...but I never used them cause I donīt know how exactly it should be used..

  5. #25
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    Re: moral damage?

    Quote Originally Posted by Avalon View Post
    I didnīt fully get it, why on earth would a defendant testify against him/herself? I have this game called scruples, which presents dillemas for the players to guess each otherīs answers by choosing cards ( yes, no ,depends and one of the cards is the fifth amendment card) that may be used when a player challenges your answer...but I never used them cause I donīt know how exactly it should be used..
    A defendant wouldn't. That is the point. When one receives a subpoena, he can be forced to testify truthfully, but he cannot be compelled to incriminate himself. If the prosecutor asks him an incriminating question, he has the right to decline to answer. That is often said as "I take the fifth" or "I assert my 5th Amendment rights."

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    Re: moral damage?

    Quote Originally Posted by MikeNewYork View Post
    I mean 100% of the country. Freedom of Speech is enshrined in our Constitution. If you're nice I'll send you a copy.
    Times change and so should your constitution. Its painful I know, but as I said you'll get there. After all you have moved on a little since you stopped wiping out the indians.

  7. #27
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    Re: moral damage?

    Quote Originally Posted by curmudgeon View Post
    Times change and so should your constitution. Its painful I know, but as I said you'll get there. After all you have moved on a little since you stopped wiping out the indians.
    The trouble is that you guys still paint your faces with woad and howl at the moon. When you evolve a bit more, you can have your own Constitution. For now you'll have to settle for rules dictated from London.

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    Re: moral damage?

    Good Lord, this old can of worms again.

    America and Europe have vastly different traditions in this regard, and I don't think it can be said that one system is better than the other. A valid criticism of the American system is that the term "freedom of speech" has been interpreted so broadly that it is almost certainly no longer what the Founding Fathers had in mind, and has been used to defend certain kinds of hate crime (the picketing of funerals by the infamous Westboro Baptist Church is an example); a valid criticism of the European system is that speech is so heavily regulated, that proper debate is becoming increasingly difficult (the new law against incitement of religious hatred, for example, has even been criticised by the very people it is designed to protect).

    But even in the States there are restrictions on freedom of speech. The First Amendment covers only laws made by Congress, so you cannot invoke the First Amendment to force a newspaper to publish your letter uncensored, for example. And even in Europe, not everything is banned: there is no such thing as a law prohibiting moral damage, but there is a law banning the incitement of racial hatred. If I call somebody an offensive name, I can expect to be reprimanded; but only if I call on people to perform acts of violence against certain ethnic groups do I actually break the law.

    All of this, of course, is quite irrelevant to the thread.

  9. #29
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    Re: moral damage?

    Quote Originally Posted by MikeNewYork View Post
    The trouble is that you guys still paint your faces with woad and howl at the moon. When you evolve a bit more, you can have your own Constitution. For now you'll have to settle for rules dictated from London.
    Your way out of touch Mike. We have our own parliament and make our own laws, much to the chagrin of the english.
    Last edited by curmudgeon; 09-Nov-2006 at 14:42. Reason: spelling

  10. #30
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    Re: moral damage?

    Quote Originally Posted by curmudgeon View Post
    Your way out of touch Mike. We have our own parliament and make our own laws, much to the chagrin of the english.
    I'm aware of that. So, who's your Queen now?

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