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  1. #11
    Dr. Jamshid Ibrahim is offline Senior Member
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    Default Re: since + past tenses

    Quote Originally Posted by hela View Post
    Dear Dr. J.I.,

    According to what you have just said (in # 3 & 4), I don't understand your earlier point:


    Would you accept now the sentence:"It has been a long time since I HAVE SEEN her"?

    One more thing, in the sentence "she doesn't phone since she got married", isn't "since" a conjunction?

    All the best,
    Hela
    Yes, I do because in both sentences "since" is a conjunction with its own clause. It is always a matter of emphasis and perspective and as you know people do have different perspectives. BTW "Since" is not that straightforward as it appears. In a way it is like mixed conditionals. The standard tense in the main clause is present perfect and after it a point of time (in the past) is given. Still, there are case where you can use present perfect before and after since. Past simple can of course be used after since. In the main clause even present continuous and present simple can be used.
    Last edited by Dr. Jamshid Ibrahim; 03-Dec-2006 at 07:57.

  2. #12
    RonBee's Avatar
    RonBee is offline Moderator
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    Default Re: since + past tenses

    Quote Originally Posted by hela View Post

    Would you accept now the sentence:"It has been a long time since I HAVE SEEN her"?
    There is nothing wrong with that sentence. It is perfectly fine.

    Quote Originally Posted by hela View Post
    One more thing, in the sentence "she doesn't phone since she got married", isn't "since" a conjunction?
    I think so.

    ~R

  3. #13
    Dr. Jamshid Ibrahim is offline Senior Member
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    Default Re: since + past tenses

    In a way phrases with “since” are like mixed conditionals. Nothing is straightforward. Nevertheless, its multiple functions make this little word interesting. Now draw a (time) line with since in the middle as follows:
    …………………………..since………………………..

    The following configuration is possible:
    1. As adverb of time - Present perfect (before) - past simple (after )
    He has been ill since he started work

    2. It can come in end position either alone in collocation with ever. (present perfect)
    I haven’t seen him since (ever since)

    2. Since as a conjunction
    - Present perfect simple/continuous before- past simple after
    - Present simple before – present perfect after
    - Past simple after – Present simple in the main clause

    He has been working here since he moved house
    Since in a clause can be followed by perfect tense:
    It is ages since I have travelled by air.
    Since I saw her I can’t stop thinking of her

    3. Since - phrases can express temporal location or duration:
    I have been lonely since you left (temporal location)
    I have been here since three O’clock. (duration)

  4. #14
    MrPedantic is offline Moderator
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    Default Re: since + past tenses

    Hello Dr J.

    Quote Originally Posted by Dr. Jamshid Ibrahim View Post

    1. If the emphasis is on the point of departure (since being a preposition) something like: since 1998, the point of time is certaily past and not present perfect.

    4. If you refer to a finished point of time present perfect is used:
    It is now a year since we have signed the agreement.
    I have to admit, I would find these sentences perfectly natural:

    1. Since 1998, I have eaten 5 portions of vegetables every day.
    2. It is now a year since we signed the agreement.

    Do they sound strange to you?

    All the best,

    MrP

  5. #15
    Dr. Jamshid Ibrahim is offline Senior Member
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    Default Re: since + past tenses

    Of course you can use past simple instead of present perfect:
    since we signed the agreement
    But then you change your emphasis and perspective or focus. Both are correct.
    Regards
    Jamshid

  6. #16
    hela is offline Senior Member
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    Default Re: since + past tenses

    Dear teachers,

    Sorry to insist but I've had so many interpretations and views that I don't know what what I should do / write in the end. Would you please give me a definite (if possible) answer to the following questions?

    1) Is it acceptable in written English to say:

    a) My My mother looks younger since she dyed her hair.

    b) My mother has looked younger since she dyed her hair.

    c) Until when are you going to stay here.

    2) How would you justify the use of the present with "since" in the following sentences?

    a) Since when (standard ?) do you have the right to tell me what to do?

    b) My kids think that the cell phone is the greatest thing since sliced bread.

    Is the use of the present allowed with stative verbs? Why?

    Thank you very much for your patience.
    Hela

  7. #17
    RonBee's Avatar
    RonBee is offline Moderator
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    Post Re: since + past tenses

    My mother looks younger since she dyed her hair. OK

    My mother has looked younger since she dyed her hair. no

    Until when are you going to stay here? no
    (Say: "When are you going to leave?" or "How much longer are you going to stay?")

    Since when do you have the right to tell me what to do? OK
    (A rhetorical question.)

    My kids think that the cell phone is the greatest thing since sliced bread. OK
    (A common type of expression.)

    ~R

  8. #18
    RonBee's Avatar
    RonBee is offline Moderator
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    Default Re: since + past tenses

    Question:
    Is the use of the present allowed with stative verbs?
    Is the present tense used with stative verbs? Yes.
    Is the present progressive used with stative verbs? No.

    (It is not a question of whether it is allowed or not.)

    http://www.usingenglish.com/glossary/stative-verb.html

    ~R

  9. #19
    riverkid is offline Banned
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    Default Re: since + past tenses

    Quote Originally Posted by hela View Post
    Dear teachers,

    Sorry to insist but I've had so many interpretations and views that I don't know what what I should do / write in the end. Would you please give me a definite (if possible) answer to the following questions?

    The reason that a definite interpretation can't be given, Hela, is because under some circumstances, due to semantic considerations, with certain verbs, we have a choice.

    1) Is it acceptable in written English to say:

    a) My mother looks younger since she dyed her hair.

    b) My mother has looked younger since she dyed her hair.

    With 'looks' the feeling is that 'looking younger' is an ongoing thing that roughly stays the same 24 hours a day.

    b1) My mother has acted younger since she dyed her hair.

    Here, when the verb changes to "acts", the action isn't so much a routine event; mother acts younger at times and acts like her old self at others. We'd likely even switch to the present perfect continuous to express this.

    b2) My mother has sometimes been acting younger since she dyed her hair.

    b3) My mother has, on occasion, been flirting with my dad since she dyed her hair. She never used to do that.

    ======================


    c) Until when are you going to stay here.

    2) How would you justify the use of the present with "since" in the following sentences?

    a) Since when (standard ?) do you have the right to tell me what to do?

    'since' means from some point in the past until now. It means,

    From what point in the past [until now - unspoken but assumed] do you think that you have acquired the right to tell me what to do?


    b) My kids think that the cell phone is the greatest thing since sliced bread.

    Of all the great things that have come along/been invented over the years since sliced bread was invented [until now] my kids think the best thing is the cell phone.

    Thank you very much for your patience.
    Hela
    ##

  10. #20
    riverkid is offline Banned
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    Default Re: since + past tenses

    Quote Originally Posted by RonBee View Post
    Question:
    Is the use of the present allowed with stative verbs?

    Is the present progressive used with stative verbs? No.

    (It is not a question of whether it is allowed or not.)

    http://www.usingenglish.com/glossary/stative-verb.html

    ~R
    I think that the operative words in that definition from the source given, are " not usually". What do you think, Ron?

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