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  1. #21
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    Default Re: "me neither" or "me either"?

    Quote Originally Posted by riverkid View Post
    I think we can continue this discussion on the larger issue; What does it matter if it's standard English or not?
    Agreed. What's the issue? Let's define it. Should we start a new thread?

  2. #22
    riverkid is offline Banned
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    Default Re: "me neither" or "me either"?

    Quote Originally Posted by Casiopea View Post
    Let's keep the continuity, riverkid, and end one topic before starting a new one. You've questions to answer.
    Good point, Casi, Let's do stay on topic. Was it me who led off on the merits of Google searches?


    But the crux of the matter is that we are talking about Standard usage; i.e., dinhen's question, 'Should I say...?"
    should, auxiliary verb. Used to express obligation or duty: You should send her a note. 2. Used to express probability or expectation: They should arrive at noon.


    I agree wholeheartedly with you there. However, meandering up this and that tributary isn't helping the poster with his question. Some streams lead to swamps, others to waterfalls.

    Do you feel your response to dihen did that?
    Casi, what portion of the definition of 'should' lends support to your position that this is all about standard English?

    I have admitted that my response was not as full as it should be and I've amended it. Let me be reiterate my amendment. Both 'me either' and 'me neither' are fine and both are grammatical for casual English. Did you address this at all? No, you headed off on a long discussion of how the meaning was something that it most certainly isn't.

    As you keep raising this, shall we examine your first response.

    ++++++++++++++++++++++++

    Your response was:

    Use 'neither' if 'not' isn't stated; use 'either' if 'not' is stated. (You see, 'not..either' means neither.)

    Sam: I don't like it.
    Pat: Me, neither.
    Ali: I don't like it, either.

    ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

    And now, Casi, why is it that you've completely abandoned the "grammatical" issues and the "advice" from "Jennifer" on meaning and taken up the P point of view, which seems to rely only on the subjective?

    We're back to square one. No plausible reasons to discount a natural language collocation except for "we don't like it".

  3. #23
    riverkid is offline Banned
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    Default Re: "me neither" or "me either"?

    Quote Originally Posted by Casiopea View Post
    Agreed. What's the issue? Let's define it. Should we start a new thread?
    By all means, Casi. Have at 'er'.

  4. #24
    dihen is offline Member
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    Default Re: "me neither" or "me either"?

    Quote Originally Posted by Casiopea View Post
    Please note that, dihen asked, "Should I say...?", not What do people say? Dihen is aware that there's a variation out there - hence the question.
    No I'm not aware of that. I probably should have said "Do I say...?". I said "Should I say...?" because I just happen to translate the word corresponding to the one in my native language as "should", even though actually, in my native language, a word that means something similar to "need to" would be used there; therefore that sentence would start with "Do I need to say...?" if I translated more literally, but that would not be what I mean to say either.
    Last edited by dihen; 28-Jan-2007 at 10:42.

  5. #25
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    Default Re: "me neither" or "me either"?

    Glad to have that cleared up. Thanks, Dihen.

    Now, to your question. As a response for "I don't like it", standard usage is 'Neither do I'; informal or colloquial usage is 'Me neither'. You'll find that speakers will and do say 'Me either'. It's neither informal nor colloquial; it's considered non-standard usage at this point in time. Which is to say that the more people use it, the more popular it will become, and the more likely it will become colloquial usage. That's going to be awhile, though.

    Does that help?

  6. #26
    riverkid is offline Banned
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    Default Re: "me neither" or "me either"?

    Quote Originally Posted by Casiopea View Post
    Glad to have that cleared up. Thanks, Dihen.

    Now, to your question. As a response for "I don't like it", standard usage is 'Neither do I'; informal or colloquial usage is 'Me neither'. You'll find that speakers will and do say 'Me either'. It's neither informal nor colloquial; it's considered non-standard usage at this point in time. Which is to say that the more people use it, the more popular it will become, and the more likely it will become colloquial usage. That's going to be awhile, though.

    Does that help?
    That doesn't help at all, Casi. It badly misleads. What is this third grouping you're trying to create? You've contradicted yourself.

    Casi wrote:
    [me either]'s neither informal nor colloquial; it's considered non-standard usage at this point in time.
    You characterize 'me neither' as informal and colloquial which makes it a nonstandard usage. 'me either', you note, is "considered non-standard usage at this point in time". That makes it colloquial/informal.

    [Do you realize that there are those who consider "at this point in time" improper usage? I wouldn't worry about those prescriptive know-nothings though.]

    Casi, we have Standard English and nonStandard English. There is no third category that I'm aware of. NonStandard is colloquial/informal, as defined below.


    AHD

    colloquial

    SYLLABICATION: colˇloˇquiˇal

    ADJECTIVE: 1. Characteristic of or appropriate to the spoken language or to writing that seeks the effect of speech; informal. 2. Relating to conversation; conversational.

    colloquial. The American HeritageŽ Dictionary of the English Language: Fourth Edition. 2000.
    Do you perhaps have a name for this new grouping, Casi?

    Now to clear things up for Dihen and other ESLs who might still be badly confused by all this.


    Nonstandard English
    There are many expressions and grammatical constructions that are not normally used in Standard English. These include regional expressions, such as might could, and other usages, such as ain’t and it don’t, that are typically associated with dialects used by people belonging to less prestigious social groups.

    These nonstandard varieties of English are no less logical or systematic than Standard English. In this book an expression labeled nonstandard is not wrong; it is merely inappropriate for ordinary usage in Standard English.

    ...

    Informal English This is a broad category applied to situations in which it is not necessary, and in many cases not even desirable, to use the conventions of formal discourse. Informal language incorporates many of the familiar features of spoken English, especially the tendency to use contractions and to abbreviate sentences by omitting certain elements.

    Introduction. The American Heritage Book of English Usage. 1996
    [ADDED EMPHASIS IS MINE]
    Last edited by riverkid; 28-Jan-2007 at 16:53.

  7. #27
    dihen is offline Member
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    Default Re: "me neither" or "me either"?

    Quote Originally Posted by Casiopea View Post
    Glad to have that cleared up. Thanks, Dihen.
    Now, to your question. As a response for "I don't like it", standard usage is 'Neither do I'; informal or colloquial usage is 'Me neither'.
    Are "I don't either." and "Nor do I." possible?

  8. #28
    riverkid is offline Banned
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    Default Re: "me neither" or "me either"?

    Quote Originally Posted by dihen View Post
    Are "I don't either." and "Nor do I." possible?
    Yes, they are, Dihen. They are both standard.

  9. #29
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    Smile Re: "me neither" or "me either"?

    I have learned in depth for 'me neither' and 'me either' usage after I completely read this Thread. Thank you to all of you.

  10. #30
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    Default Re: "me neither" or "me either"?

    Quote Originally Posted by dihen View Post
    Are "I don't either." and "Nor do I." possible?
    Absolutely. However, I suggest omitting the periods in that sentence.

    ~R

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