persuade to do / persuade into doing

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peppy_man

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(1) I persuaded him to come to the party.
(2) I persuaded him into coming to the party.

Is there any difference in meaning between (1) and (2)?
If both mean the same, which form is more frequently used? :)
 

BobK

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(1) I persuaded him to come to the party.
(2) I persuaded him into coming to the party.
Is there any difference in meaning between (1) and (2)?
If both mean the same, which form is more frequently used? :)

The meanings are very close; the 'into + gerund' suggests a more sustained effort at persuading (perhaps over several days):

He didn't want to come to the party when I first mentioned it, but I finally persuaded him into coming.

b
 

Philly

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Persuade into doing sounds odd to me, though I was able to google it. It sounds as though someone is mixing up "talk into" and "persuade".
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Is that a common usage in the UK, Bob?
 

Dr. Jamshid Ibrahim

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(1) I persuaded him to come to the party.
(2) I persuaded him into coming to the party.
Is there any difference in meaning between (1) and (2)?
If both mean the same, which form is more frequently used? :)

In a way this is the same with try:
Try to do it: try one time (attempt)
try doing it: try many times (experiment)

Thus:
Persuade into coming to the party (as BobK already said is a sustained effort ie by trying many times or over many days.

This is because doing sth many times implies experiment and experiment means experience. Experience in turn refers to a retrospective view (gerund) in comparison with infinitive which is prospective in view.
 
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BobK

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Persuade into doing sounds odd to me, though I was able to google it. It sounds as though someone is mixing up "talk into" and "persuade".
.
Is that a common usage in the UK, Bob?

I wouldn 't say it was common Philly, but as the learned Doctor says, it exists.

b
 

Philly

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Hi Doc
.
To my American ear, the use of a gerund in this case appears to be due to the simple fact that into is a preposition -- just as the gerund would be necessary if we used "talk into".
.
I doubt that I have ever used "persuade into" myself. As I mentioned, the usage ("persuade into") sounds odd to me. I guess it must be a regional thing...
 

Dr. Jamshid Ibrahim

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Hi Doc
.
To my American ear, the use of a gerund in this case appears to be due to the simple fact that into is a preposition -- just as the gerund would be necessary if we used "talk into".
.
I doubt that I have ever used "persuade into" myself. As I mentioned, the usage ("persuade into") sounds odd to me. I guess it must be a regional thing...

You are right the gerund follows a preposition. But into implies a sustained effort as already said. The to in persuade to is part of the infinitive. But you can certainly persuade sb to do sth or into doing sth.
 

Philly

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Hi Doc
.
I think you may have missed my point. "Persuade into" sounds odd enough to me that it simply sounds wrong and that's probably why it carries none of that "feeling of sustained extra effort" for me. To me, the word persuade (by definition) already indicates some sustained effort.
 

MrPedantic

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1. I persuaded him to come to the party.
2. I persuaded him into coming to the party.

I would take "persuade into" in #2 as a phrasal verb, and the underlined portion (the gerund phrase) as its object.

There seem to be two senses of "persuade (someone) into":

i) To induce someone into (a belief, etc.).
ii) To prevail upon someone to do (an action).

For the latter sense, which appears to be that of #2, my dictionary gives this example:

3. To persuade the lady into a private marriage (1771).

MrP
 

Dr. Jamshid Ibrahim

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Hi Doc
.
I think you may have missed my point. "Persuade into" sounds odd enough to me that it simply sounds wrong and that's probably why it carries none of that "feeling of sustained effort" for me.


Well Philly it may sound odd to you (AME) but in (BE) it does exist and it is not regional either. As I said earlier the meaning changes to:
You persuade sb into doing sth by providing good reasons for doing it. Compare the following sentence taken from Oxford English Dictionary:
I allowed myself to be persuaded into entering the competition
 

Philly

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You've misinterpreted my 'regional' comment, Doc. That was intended to include possible regional differences in AmE. My input here was intended as just that: input. ;-)
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It's interesting to know that some people do say "persuade into".
 

Dr. Jamshid Ibrahim

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You've misinterpreted my 'regional' comment, Doc. That was intended to include possible regional differences in AmE. My input here was intended as just that: input. ;-)
.
It's interesting to know that some people do say "persuade into".

Yes, but with a slightly different meaning. Some people might think that in some cases you can use gerund or infinitive and still make the same meaning as with start to work/working. In reality gerund always implies: looking back on experience. Comapre like:
I like to do sth (choice)
I like doing sth (enjoyment: experience)
 

MrPedantic

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I'm not sure I catch a necessary connotation of extra effort in "persuade into": I take the "into" as metaphorically directional. Cf.

1. I persuaded the rabbit into the hutch.

This suggests some waving of dandelion leaves in front of the twitching pink nose; but not necessarily in any kind of sustained fashion.

MrP
 

BobK

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I'm not sure I catch a necessary connotation of extra effort in "persuade into": I take the "into" as metaphorically directional. Cf.
1. I persuaded the rabbit into the hutch.
This suggests some waving of dandelion leaves in front of the twitching pink nose; but not necessarily in any kind of sustained fashion.
MrP

With respect, I don't think that example's quite fair. The 'into' we're talking about (in the phrasal verb 'persuade into') is the first of the two in your sentence (which only has one, I know!):

I persuaded the rabbit [into going] into the hutch.

I think you'd only use the fuller form of that sentence if the first effort (simple chasing) failed, a second attempt (with bran) failed too, but only dandelion leaves had the desired effect.

b
PS
Is this an entirely teacher-led thread now? ;-)
 
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MrPedantic

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I don't know about teacher-led; but I do worry that we're giving the impression of knowing far too much about luring rabbits into hutches.

Must remember to choose an example that involves spark plugs, sprockets, and brake clutch levers next time...

MrP
 
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