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Thread: vocabulary

  1. #11
    MikeNewYork's Avatar
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    Default Re: vocabulary

    Quote Originally Posted by Casiopea
    I for one do not see a problem with the test. Sorry.

    a. misfortune b. sorrow
    1. He believed that the greatest of his misfortune was that he'd never had a college education.
    Sorrows are feelings quantified as being deep, not great.

    a. fault b. guilt
    2. The traffic police were searching for evidence to prove the accused man's fault, but in vain.
    You can prove someone is at fault or show proof that someone is guilty, but you cannot prove someone's guilt--an internal feeling.

    a. personalities b. qualities
    3. The fact that they reacted so differently was a reflection of their different personalities.
    Reactions relate to behavior; qualities relate to attributes.

    All the best,
    I see your points, but "guilt" is not only defined as an internal feeling.

    guilt (gĭlt)
    n.
    1. The fact of being responsible for the commission of an offense. See synonyms at blame.
    2. Law. Culpability for a crime or lesser breach of regulations that carries a legal penalty.

    3. a. Remorseful awareness of having done something wrong.
    3. b. Self-reproach for supposed inadequacy or wrongdoing.
    4. Guilty conduct; sin.
    [Middle English gilt, from Old English gylt, crime.]


    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    The American Heritage® Dictionary of the English Language, Fourth Edition Copyright © 2003 by Houghton Mifflin Company. Published by Houghton Mifflin Company. All rights reserved.


    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------

  2. #12
    MikeNewYork's Avatar
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    Default Re: vocabulary

    Quote Originally Posted by shane
    Quote Originally Posted by MikeNewYork

    I have seen many questions posted from practice books that are clearly wrong. One has to be careful in choosing study aids. :mad:
    The problem is Mike, most middle/senior schools in China test the students using these kinds of questions daily. And many of them are wrong (none of the four choices are suitable answers). For the students, they have no choice. They must choose one, or they'll fail the test. It's not a question of skill; it's just a question of choosing the answer that matches the questions setter's (wrong) answer!
    That's unfortunate. How does one advise these students on the choice between incorrect answers. :?

  3. #13
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    Default Re: vocabulary

    Quote Originally Posted by Casiopea
    I for one do not see a problem with the test. Sorry.

    a. misfortune b. sorrow
    1. He believed that the greatest of his misfortune was that he'd never had a college education.
    Sorrows are feelings quantified as being deep, not great.

    a. fault b. guilt
    2. The traffic police were searching for evidence to prove the accused man's fault, but in vain.
    You can prove someone is at fault or show proof that someone is guilty, but you cannot prove someone's guilt--an internal feeling.

    a. personalities b. qualities
    3. The fact that they reacted so differently was a reflection of their different personalities.
    Reactions relate to behavior; qualities relate to attributes.

    All the best,
    I have no problem with great sorrows. Also, as Mike noted, you can prove someone's guilt. What you can't do is prove someone's fault. However, you can prove that somebody is at fault.

    :)

  4. #14
    shane is offline Senior Member
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    Default Re: vocabulary

    Quote Originally Posted by MikeNewYork
    How does one advise these students on the choice between incorrect answers. :?
    I advise them to close their eyes and put their finger on an answer. (Joking!!) :wink:

    Take for example, a recent test paper I saw the other day. The passage began like this:

    When Jill was a boy, he always liked and watched radios very much.
    (Those are the exact words, I noted them down.)

  5. #15
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    Default Re: vocabulary

    Quote Originally Posted by MikeNewYork
    Quote Originally Posted by Casiopea
    I for one do not see a problem with the test. Sorry.

    a. misfortune b. sorrow
    1. He believed that the greatest of his misfortune was that he'd never had a college education.
    Sorrows are feelings quantified as being deep, not great.

    a. fault b. guilt
    2. The traffic police were searching for evidence to prove the accused man's fault, but in vain.
    You can prove someone is at fault or show proof that someone is guilty, but you cannot prove someone's guilt--an internal feeling.

    a. personalities b. qualities
    3. The fact that they reacted so differently was a reflection of their different personalities.
    Reactions relate to behavior; qualities relate to attributes.

    All the best,
    I see your points, but "guilt" is not only defined as an internal feeling.

    guilt (gĭlt)
    n.
    1. The fact of being responsible for the commission of an offense. See synonyms at blame.
    2. Law. Culpability for a crime or lesser breach of regulations that carries a legal penalty.
    3. a. Remorseful awareness of having done something wrong.
    3. b. Self-reproach for supposed inadequacy or wrongdoing.
    4. Guilty conduct; sin.
    [Middle English gilt, from Old English gylt, crime.]


    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    The American Heritage® Dictionary of the English Language, Fourth Edition Copyright © 2003 by Houghton Mifflin Company. Published by Houghton Mifflin Company. All rights reserved.


    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    The traffic police were searching for evidence to prove the accused man's fault, but in vain.
    Agreed. The accused man has guilt (i.e, man's guilt) is fine in terms of structure. It's the prove X (VO) structure that I find somewhat sematically odd.

    The problem I see is not with the noun 'guilt' per se. It's with the transitive nature of the verb 'prove'. The way I see it is like this. One can establish that guilt exists (Verb-Obj-Comp), but one cannot prove guilt (Verb-Obj).

    VO: "I'm going to prove your guilt." :(
    VOC: "I'm going to prove your guilt exists." :)

    It's a subtle difference, agreed, but it's a difference.

    All the best,

  6. #16
    Tdol is offline Editor, UsingEnglish.com
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    Default Re: vocabulary

    Quote Originally Posted by shane
    Quote Originally Posted by MikeNewYork
    How does one advise these students on the choice between incorrect answers. :?
    I advise them to close their eyes and put their finger on an answer. (Joking!!) :wink:

    Take for example, a recent test paper I saw the other day. The passage began like this:

    When Jill was a boy, he always liked and watched radios very much.
    (Those are the exact words, I noted them down.)
    A very advanced paper socially; we have yet to include openly transgenderal members of society in our exams here.

  7. #17
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    Default Re: vocabulary

    Quote Originally Posted by Casiopea
    The traffic police were searching for evidence to prove the accused man's fault, but in vain.
    Agreed. The accused man has guilt (i.e, man's guilt) is fine in terms of structure. It's the prove X (VO) structure that I find somewhat sematically odd.

    The problem I see is not with the noun 'guilt' per se. It's with the transitive nature of the verb 'prove'. The way I see it is like this. One can establish that guilt exists (Verb-Obj-Comp), but one cannot prove guilt (Verb-Obj).

    VO: "I'm going to prove your guilt." :(
    VOC: "I'm going to prove your guilt exists." :)

    It's a subtle difference, agreed, but it's a difference.

    All the best,
    I understand your point, but "prove guilt" is very commonly used. The verb "prove" has a transitive use and "guilt" has the meaning of "legal culpability". I find "prove fault" to much odder. Google returns 8,400 hits for "prove guilt" and 2,100 hits for "prove fault". I guess it comes down to individual preference. :wink:

  8. #18
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    Default Re: vocabulary

    Quote Originally Posted by shane
    Quote Originally Posted by MikeNewYork
    How does one advise these students on the choice between incorrect answers. :?
    I advise them to close their eyes and put their finger on an answer. (Joking!!) :wink:

    Take for example, a recent test paper I saw the other day. The passage began like this:

    When Jill was a boy, he always liked and watched radios very much.
    (Those are the exact words, I noted them down.)
    Was this in the trangender module?

  9. #19
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    Default Re: vocabulary

    Quote Originally Posted by MikeNewYork
    Quote Originally Posted by Casiopea
    The traffic police were searching for evidence to prove the accused man's fault, but in vain.
    Agreed. The accused man has guilt (i.e, man's guilt) is fine in terms of structure. It's the prove X (VO) structure that I find somewhat sematically odd.

    The problem I see is not with the noun 'guilt' per se. It's with the transitive nature of the verb 'prove'. The way I see it is like this. One can establish that guilt exists (Verb-Obj-Comp), but one cannot prove guilt (Verb-Obj).

    VO: "I'm going to prove your guilt." :(
    VOC: "I'm going to prove your guilt exists." :)

    It's a subtle difference, agreed, but it's a difference.

    All the best,
    I understand your point, but "prove guilt" is very commonly used. The verb "prove" has a transitive use and "guilt" has the meaning of "legal culpability". I find "prove fault" to much odder. Google returns 8,400 hits for "prove guilt" and 2,100 hits for "prove fault". I guess it comes down to individual preference. :wink:
    :) Apparently, The English test was not based on Googlenglish :)

  10. #20
    MikeNewYork's Avatar
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    Default Re: vocabulary

    Quote Originally Posted by Casiopea
    Quote Originally Posted by MikeNewYork
    Quote Originally Posted by Casiopea
    The traffic police were searching for evidence to prove the accused man's fault, but in vain.
    Agreed. The accused man has guilt (i.e, man's guilt) is fine in terms of structure. It's the prove X (VO) structure that I find somewhat sematically odd.

    The problem I see is not with the noun 'guilt' per se. It's with the transitive nature of the verb 'prove'. The way I see it is like this. One can establish that guilt exists (Verb-Obj-Comp), but one cannot prove guilt (Verb-Obj).

    VO: "I'm going to prove your guilt." :(
    VOC: "I'm going to prove your guilt exists." :)

    It's a subtle difference, agreed, but it's a difference.

    All the best,
    I understand your point, but "prove guilt" is very commonly used. The verb "prove" has a transitive use and "guilt" has the meaning of "legal culpability". I find "prove fault" to much odder. Google returns 8,400 hits for "prove guilt" and 2,100 hits for "prove fault". I guess it comes down to individual preference. :wink:
    :) Apparently, The English test was not based on Googlenglish :)
    It appears that it wasn't even up to that level. :wink:

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