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Thread: Casino Royale

  1. #1
    CHOMAT is offline Senior Member
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    Default Casino Royale

    A polemical subject: The last James BOND Casino Royale triggered fierce conversations throughout France. The question was whether the final E of royale is a mistake or not. I had an explanation, which I 've shared with many of my fellow-citizens, but I 'm afraid they might not have been convinced by this 'it's-not- a -mistake 'propositionand by the fact that the answer might be found in the linguistic field ( loanwords, American words borrowed from French..). Consequently, I 'd like to know the native's point of view so as to settle that quarrel in a time when English is prone to be regarded as the root of all evils.

  2. #2
    Anglika is offline No Longer With Us
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    Default Re: Casino Royale

    Fleming renamed Monaco as Royale in the book. Therefore it is the Casino Royale [Casino Monaco/Casino Las Vegas/ Casino Manchester].

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    Default Re: Casino Royale

    From Casino Royale (2006) - FAQ
    Of course, a place in French is feminine and deserves the 'e' at the end. A casino, however, is masculine, so the name should correctly be spelled "Casino Royal".
    .

  4. #4
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    Default Re: Casino Royale

    Could "Casino Royale" have been an anagram, a sailor con ye?

    "In May of 1939, Fleming started a more formal attachment to the intelligence service, working with Naval Intelligence. Soon, he was full-time assistant to the director, taking the rank of Lieutenant, and later Commander. Fleming became the right-hand man to one of Britain's top spymasters, Admiral John Godfrey." Source

    Here's a list of all the anagrams for the phrase Casino Royale.

  5. #5
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    BobK is offline Harmless drudge
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    Default Re: Casino Royale

    Quote Originally Posted by Casiopea View Post
    From Casino Royale (2006) - FAQ
    Of course, a place in French is feminine and deserves the 'e' at the end. A casino, however, is masculine, so the name should correctly be spelled "Casino Royal".
    .
    I disagree. I go along with Anglika. But I'm not overly concerned about this - I'm just trying to celebrate the year with my 2007th post. Only one more to go

    b

  6. #6
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    Default Re: Casino Royale

    I think that since the casino takes its name from the (fictional) town of Royale-les-Eaux, it would keep the "e" at the end.

    On another matter: use of the word "polemical". My Spanish students sometimes use this word (in the context of "it's a polemical subject") and I generally tell them that it's better to say "controversial", simply because I've personally never heard a native English speaker using the former term.

    Do other native speakers agree, or am I being unduly picky? (I have to admit that at first I didn't think polemical was an English word at all, but I've found I was wrong.)

  7. #7
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    Default Re: Casino Royale

    Quote Originally Posted by boothling View Post
    I think that since the casino takes its name from the (fictional) town of Royale-les-Eaux, it would keep the "e" at the end.

    On another matter: use of the word "polemical". My Spanish students sometimes use this word (in the context of "it's a polemical subject") and I generally tell them that it's better to say "controversial", simply because I've personally never heard a native English speaker using the former term.

    Do other native speakers agree, or am I being unduly picky? (I have to admit that at first I didn't think polemical was an English word at all, but I've found I was wrong.)
    I don't think you're being too picky. I have met the other word, but usually in the sense "characteristic of the language or tone used in dealing with controversial subjects" (though I see Answers.com doesn't agree). So I think 'controversial' is more appropriate in your context - though sometimes the register could be worth thinking about. In some less formal situations, dicey or hot or something like it might be more appropriate.

    b

  8. #8
    Tdol is offline Editor, UsingEnglish.com
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    Default Re: Casino Royale

    Quote Originally Posted by BobK View Post
    I disagree. I go along with Anglika. But I'm not overly concerned about this - I'm just trying to celebrate the year with my 2007th post. Only one more to go

    b

    Congratulations

  9. #9
    CHOMAT is offline Senior Member
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    Default Re: Casino Royale

    Quote Originally Posted by Casiopea View Post
    From Casino Royale (2006) - FAQ
    Of course, a place in French is feminine and deserves the 'e' at the end. A casino, however, is masculine, so the name should correctly be spelled "Casino Royal".
    .
    The question is also to know whether this structure should be understood as French or as American?
    I don't think there is a mistake and this phenomenon can be found in other American names ( Battle Royale) the Bugatti ( Royale) Royale a kind of custard . I guess this word "royale" can not be regarded as an adjective any longer but as part of the noun group just as many French words borrowed by English . those words have remained as lexical fossiles .

  10. #10
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    Default Re: Casino Royale

    It's really not that involved. (See post #6). Casino Royale is short for Casino Royale-Les-Eaux.

    By the way, Ian Fleming, who wrote the screenplay (1953) and coined the phrase Casino Royale, was British, not American. If the USA take on Casino Royale (2006) is a spelling mistake then so is Taco Grande. Neither "royale" (royal) nor "grande" (big) are listed in the dictionaries, but English speakers use them today; e.g., tissue brand Royale, a word borrowed from French. As for phrases like, for example, Bugatti Royale, it's short for two names: Golden Bugatti and La Royale. That car had two names. As for Battle royal(e), from French Bataille royale, it still admits -e + -e, like cafe royale, and yet seafood royale, short for seafood la royale, and Casino Royale, short for Casino Royale-Les-Eaux, apparently do not admit the to follow the rule -unless, that is, they're unravelled.

    All the best.

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