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    #1

    A question on a part of speech

    A gentleman in India noticed a valuable ring missing, and he had reason to believe that one of his servants had stolen it.
    ***********************

    Dear Sir/Ma'am

    With reference to the above sentence I would appreciate it, if you kindly let me know a part of speech of the underlined word "missing" between an adjective and a verb(present participle).

    I look forward to receiving your reply.

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    #2

    Re: A question on a part of speech

    Quote Originally Posted by sariputra View Post
    A gentleman in India noticed a valuable ring missing, and he had reason to believe that one of his servants had stolen it.
    ***********************

    Dear Sir/Ma'am

    With reference to the above sentence I would appreciate it, if you kindly let me know a part of speech of the underlined word "missing" between an adjective and a verb(present participle).

    I look forward to receiving your reply.
    I would say missing in this context is adjective rather than present participle of a verb, as "missing" here is used to indicate the status of the ring. Present participle usually retains some quality of verb whereas adjective has lost that quality, even if it is derived from verb.


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    #3

    Re: A question on a part of speech

    Hi, Sariputra,
    Yes, it's a Present Participle (Participle I). I don't understand your question.


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    #4

    Re: A question on a part of speech

    Quote Originally Posted by ian2 View Post
    I would say missing in this context is adjective rather than present participle of a verb, as "missing" here is used to indicate the status of the ring. Present participle usually retains some quality of verb whereas adjective has lost that quality, even if it is derived from verb.
    Thank you, ian2 , for your kind reply. I think your explation is very reasonable and ,therefore, acceptable as a valid answer to my question.


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    #5

    Re: A question on a part of speech

    Sorry, Ian,
    I am sure it’s a participle because of the Complex Object pattern it’s used in.
    He noticed that the ring was missing.

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    #6

    Re: A question on a part of speech

    Quote Originally Posted by Humble View Post
    Sorry, Ian,
    I am sure it’s a participle because of the Complex Object pattern it’s used in.
    He noticed that the ring was missing.
    Humble, Thanks for your reply. I think it is very beneficial to us to have this kind of exchange of opinions. We should continue doinng this.

    As to the question, I think I am a little convinced by your argument. You may have a point. Because of this particular verb structure, the word tends to be participle. But my remaining suspicion is that the word "missing" has been routinely used as an adjective. In fact, in any dictionary, it (one of the uses) is defined as adjective (part of speech). Now the question is can we say "I noticed him very active in the morning"? If this is a correct sentence, then it is more reasonable to regard missing as an adjective. But if this is a wrong sentence, then, missing here has to be present participle. But it also means that after "notice+object", you cannot use adjective at all, not only "missing" can't be used as an adjective in the structure, but any "pure" adjectives. In other words, I think you are right only because of the particular verb structure. Can we say "I noticed him very active in the morning"? Any native speakers?



    it really doesn't matter too much for practical learners whether this is an adjective or a present participle.
    Last edited by ian2; 18-Mar-2007 at 22:37.


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    #7

    Re: A question on a part of speech

    Quote Originally Posted by ian2 View Post
    Humble, Thanks for your reply. I think it is very beneficial to us to have this kind of exchange of opinions. We should continue doinng this.

    As to the question, I think I am a little convinced by your argument. You may have a point. Because of this particular verb structure, the word tends to be participle. But my remaining suspicion is that the word "missing" has been routinely used as an adjective. In fact, in any dictionary, it (one of the uses) is defined as adjective (part of speech). Now the question is can we say "I noticed him very active in the morning"? If this is a correct sentence, then it is more reasonable to regard missing as an adjective. But if this is a wrong sentence, then, missing here has to be present participle. But it also means that after "notice+object", you cannot use adjective at all, not only "missing" can't be used as an adjective in the structure, but any "pure" adjectives. In other words, I think you are right only because of the particular verb structure. Can we say "I noticed him very active in the morning"? Any native speakers?



    it is really doesn't matter too much for practical learners whether this is an adjective or a present participle.

    Hi everybody,
    This is a good question actually..I was ready to sound off and reflect on the sensory verb nature of "notice" when I realized "missing" isn't being used as a
    verb, but as an adjective. I can't help but think this is a reduced clause but what is odd, is it seems like a reduced noun clause, which I've never heard of: He noticed (that a ring was missing)..even though I could stretch it to a reduced relative clause: He noticed a ring (that was missing) but that has a strange and completely different meaning (how can you notice a ring that is missing?) .

    So...(sorry about thinking and writing aloud there ) I still come back to the sensory verb environment and I wonder if we feel we can use "missing" (even though I think it is functioning as an adjective here) because we are used to hearing a participle after "notice". I wouldn't say "I noticed the ring absent" or "I noticed the chair broken". Perhaps adjectives that double as present participle don't offend our sense of natural form in the sensory verb structure. Practice and see

    Oh, and while I totally agree that sometimes students are overwhelmed with jargon, I still think some learners feel the need to categorize!

    Looking forward to feedback

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    #8

    Re: A question on a part of speech

    Quote Originally Posted by fiona bramble View Post
    Hi everybody,
    This is a good question actually..I was ready to sound off and reflect on the sensory verb nature of "notice" when I realized "missing" isn't being used as a
    verb, but as an adjective. I can't help but think this is a reduced clause but what is odd, is it seems like a reduced noun clause, which I've never heard of: He noticed (that a ring was missing)..even though I could stretch it to a reduced relative clause: He noticed a ring (that was missing) but that has a strange and completely different meaning (how can you notice a ring that is missing?) .

    So...(sorry about thinking and writing aloud there ) I still come back to the sensory verb environment and I wonder if we feel we can use "missing" (even though I think it is functioning as an adjective here) because we are used to hearing a participle after "notice". I wouldn't say "I noticed the ring absent" or "I noticed the chair broken". Perhaps adjectives that double as present participle don't offend our sense of natural form in the sensory verb structure. Practice and see

    Oh, and while I totally agree that sometimes students are overwhelmed with jargon, I still think some learners feel the need to categorize!

    Looking forward to feedback
    I vaguely remember that in Quirk and his colleagues' famous grammar book "Grammar of Contemporary English", there is no such a concept called present participle.They simply use ing-participle. The interesting thing is you give two sentences that you wouldn't say "I noticed the ring absent" and I noticed the ring broken". Absent is clearly adjective, but broken can be used as an adjective or as a past participle. How about "I noticed the man very active in the morning?" Would you say this? At some point, we should involve a moderator in the discussion.


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    #9

    Re: A question on a part of speech

    Quote Originally Posted by ian2 View Post
    I vaguely remember that in Quirk and his colleagues' famous grammar book "Grammar of Contemporary English", there is no such a concept called present participle.They simply use ing-participle. WELL, THAT MAY BE TRUE BUT I HAVE HEARD THAT TERM USED OFTEN AND BY GRAMMARIANS AS GEEKY AS WE ARE The interesting thing is you give two sentences that you wouldn't say "I noticed the ring absent" and I noticed the ring broken". Absent is clearly adjective, but broken can be used as an adjective or as a past participle. YES, BUT IT IS THE -ING PARTICIPLE THAT I THINK IS CREATING THE EXCEPTION HERE BECAUSE OF ITS RELATIONSHIP WITH THE SENSORY VERB STRUCTURE How about "I noticed the man very active in the morning?" Would you say this? I DON'T THINK SO At some point, we should involve a moderator in the discussion.

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    #10

    Re: A question on a part of speech

    Quote Originally Posted by fiona bramble View Post
    I think even if we say this is present participle, the quality of a verb is lost anyway, whereas the quality of an adjective is pretty strong, because present participle always implies that the action is going on, but in this case, the ring is gone already. It's only the status of the ring.

    But thank you for letting me know that you as a native speaker wouldn't say "I noticed the man active in the morning".
    Last edited by ian2; 19-Mar-2007 at 03:36.

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