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  1. #11
    Buddhaheart is offline Member
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    Default Re: A question on a part of speech

    If I reposition the word in front of the adjective "valuable", I would make "missing" an ADVERB.

    If this is a reduced clause, letís expand it and see:

    (1) If I insert a whole clause thus "A gentleman in India noticed a valuable ring THAT WAS missing, and ...", "missing" would be in a relative clause functioning as a SUBJECT COMPLEMENT or PREDICATIVE ADJECTIVE. The V-ing or participle "missing" therefore functions as a kind of an adjective?

    (2) If I insert a whole clause thus "A gentleman in India noticed that his valuable ring WAS missing, and ...", "missing" would be in a noun clause functioning again as a SUBJECT COMPLEMENT or PREDICATIVE ADJECTIVE.

    I guess if "noticed" is not such a good verb to use here, one may try change it to "realized" or "sensed".

  2. #12
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    Default Re: A question on a part of speech

    Quote Originally Posted by ian2 View Post
    I think even if we say this is present participle, the quality of a verb is lost anyway, whereas the quality of an adjective is pretty strong, because present participle always implies that the action is going on, but in this case, the ring is gone already. It's only the status of the ring.

    But thank you for letting me know that you as a native speaker wouldn't say "I noticed the man active in the morning".

    Hi again Ian,
    I'm not sure if this has already been resolved somewhere else but I did have another thought...If we consider the meanings of the verb "missing", it is impossible for this to be a present participle. In terms of other adjectives not being used here, I resort to my original point about the coincidence of "missing" having a present participle form etc...
    Certainly not important, but I had to spit it out

  3. #13
    mykwyner is offline Key Member
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    Default Re: A question on a part of speech

    Here's my spin on this:

    1.) I am missing my ring. (present participle--forming present continuous)

    2.) My ring is missing. (adjective--complement to the copular verb is [be])

    The word missing has no other functions. I think that in your sentence the copula was elided like this: ...noticed a valuable ring [was] missing. Clearly missing is an attribute of the ring and must be an adjective.

    Like I said, that's just my opinion. If I was smart I'd be rich.

  4. #14
    svartnik is offline Banned
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    Default Re: A question on a part of speech

    A gentleman in India noticed a valuable ring missing, and he had reason to believe that one of his servants had stolen it.[/SIZE]

    My understanding of the problem is this:

    a valuable ring (that was) missing -- whiz deletion, missing is a non-finite verb here

    second thoughts: not okay semantically
    Last edited by svartnik; 28-Mar-2007 at 06:23.

  5. #15
    svartnik is offline Banned
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    Default Re: A question on a part of speech

    A gentleman in India noticed (that) a valuable ring (was) missing, and he had reason to believe that one of his servants had stolen it.

    missing is a predicate adjective.

    missing - Definitions from Dictionary.com

    "missing" is not the -ing form of "miss"

  6. #16
    ian2 is offline Member
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    Default Re: A question on a part of speech

    This is getting interesting. I think I need to do some research and get back to you later.

    Ian

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    Default Re: A question on a part of speech

    Hi,

    A vote for "verb" from me. Please bear with me, as I try to explain; it's somewhat complicated.

    The first step of my explanation doesn't work with "notice", so I'll use watch instead:

    S1: I watched him wash the car.
    S2: I watched him washing the car.

    Both these sentences are acceptable, but they're not equivalent. The difference is one of aspect. In S1 I'm emphasising the action (I know he was home. I watched him wash the car.). In S2, the emphasis is on duration (For a while I watched him washing the car, but then I got bored.)

    Aspect is a concept that does not apply to adjectives. So "washing", above, is a verb.

    Now for, "notice":

    S3: *I noticed the ring miss.
    S4: I noticed the ring missing.

    S3 is unacceptable. To notice is an instantaneous activity. The ring was missing while the speaker did the noticing. Since the -ing appears to carry aspect, here, too, I'd argue that "missing" is a verb.

    ***

    Wait, while typing this up I noticed an oddity:

    We cannot say: "The ring misses." If "missing" above is a verb, we're in the strange situation that it only exists in the continuous aspect.

    So I do see a strong argument for mykwyner's interpretation, here. (The ring is missing. - linking verb + adjective, rather than auxilarly verb + present participle).

    On the other hand, in "I noticed the ring missing," "missing" behaves in a way normally reserved for verbs:

    *I noticed the ring pretty. (Fiona gave similar examples.)
    I noticed the ring rolling across the floor. (cp. I watched the ring roll across the floor.)

    ***

    Personally, I'd rather accept that "missing" is a verb with no non-continuous form. (I feel it's consistent with the semantics of the word "missing": "Don't worry. Rings usually miss this time of year," doesn't make much sense. All contexts I can think for would require the continuous aspect: "The ring's missing, so I want to find it.)

    But I do realise that it's far from clear.

    Interesting thread.

  8. #18
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    Default Re: A question on a part of speech

    It is interesting Dawnstorm! I've already made clear my "position", my thoughts really, but your note reminded me that "notice", like "find", "catch", "discover" (and similar verbs) when used in the sensory verb structure only take a continuous form verb. Not that it matters 'cause I still think it's an adjective

  9. #19
    mykwyner is offline Key Member
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    Default Re: A question on a part of speech

    A ring can roll, so I can notice a ring rolling across the floor.

    A ring can shine, so I can notice a ring shining in the drawer.

    A ring cannot miss anything, so I cannot use the verb to miss with the noun ring in any but the most abstract personifications (My ring misses my finger).

    Just because the adjective missing is derived from the present participle of the verb to miss does not mean that they are interchangable, or even that their meanings are similar.

    If thirty pounds of fat were suddenly missing from my torso, I would not miss it one bit.

  10. #20
    ian2 is offline Member
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    Default Re: A question on a part of speech

    Quote Originally Posted by fiona bramble View Post
    It is interesting Dawnstorm! I've already made clear my "position", my thoughts really, but your note reminded me that "notice", like "find", "catch", "discover" (and similar verbs) when used in the sensory verb structure only take a continuous form verb. Not that it matters 'cause I still think it's an adjective
    Here is a more interesting question:

    Is there a connection between adjective and present participle? Since we are talking about adjectives from verbs, I think there must be a connection, because however you define them, they are derived from verb anyway. Where is the line that separates adjective from participle? As I said before, when the quality of a verb is fading away, the quality of an adjective is gaining status. So grammarians may like to put the two in a dichotomic format, the reality could be a continuum. Some ings are more adjectival whereas others are more of participle. I am not attempting to discourage the discussion, but just want to throw in my two cents.

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