Page 2 of 6 FirstFirst 1 2 3 4 5 6 LastLast
Results 11 to 20 of 52

Thread: as etc.

  1. #11
    jiang is offline Key Member
    • Member Info
      • Member Type:
      • Student or Learner
      • Native Language:
      • Chinese
      • Home Country:
      • China
      • Current Location:
      • China
    Join Date
    Nov 2003
    Posts
    2,671
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: as etc.

    Dear Cas,

    Thank you very much for your explanation. I understand No.1, No.2, No.4, No.5, No.6.
    I have further questions:
    No.3
    Did you mean I can say 'until finally it...' but I can't say 'before finally it...'?
    No.7
    The first example is not a question but it is inverted. That's why I don't understand this one.
    Could you please explain more?

    Looking forward to hearing from you.
    Thank you in advance.

    Jiang


    Quote Originally Posted by Casiopea View Post
    No.1
    a. As computers become cheap so the job of the teacher... <so>
    b. Because computers are becoming cheap, the job of the teacher... <verb change and no so>

    No.2
    a. so accomplished a scholar as
    b. such an accomplished scholar like (such...as not such...like)

    No.3
    _____finally it becomes what everybody knows.
    a. until finally it...
    b. before finally it... (before it finally not before finally it)

    No.4
    People today grew up with radios; they've never lived without them; they don't know what it is like not to have a radio or a TV, but my great great grandparents would have rememeber what it was like not to have a radio or a TV. In thier day there weren't any radios or TVs.

    No.5
    If there is one main characteristic of the modern world that makes our lives different from the characteristics of the old world/those of our grandparents it is probably speed.

    No.6
    a. nothing but <describes vegetarians>
    b. everything except <I don't know what you'd call people who don't eat plants foods. Veggies I can understand -they're green and soggy when cooked - but all nuts, cereals, and fruit? Who doesn't eat those? Hmm. That's just weird.

    No.7
    a. is an animal <Question form: How intelligent is an animal?>
    b. an animal is <Statement form: How intelligent an animal is.

    Note, in questions the subject-verb pair is inverted:

    Base structure: an animal is intelligent how
    WH-movement: how intelligent an animal is
    Subject-verb inversion: how intelligent is an animal

    All the best.
    Last edited by jiang; 13-Apr-2007 at 16:55.

  2. #12
    jiang is offline Key Member
    • Member Info
      • Member Type:
      • Student or Learner
      • Native Language:
      • Chinese
      • Home Country:
      • China
      • Current Location:
      • China
    Join Date
    Nov 2003
    Posts
    2,671
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: as etc.

    Dear Noego,
    There is a 'so'.
    Jiang
    Quote Originally Posted by Noego View Post
    "No.1
    _________ computers become cheap so the job of teh teacher will change from a giver of information to an adviser of students on how to use the new technology.
    a. As b. Because
    The key is 'a'. 'b' isn't correct because there is 'so' in ' so the job...'. Is that right?"

    Are you sure there's a "so" there, it just seems really wrong.

    I would say:

    "As computers become cheap, the job of the teacher will change from a giver of information, to an adviser of students on how to use the new technology."

    I think it sounds sooo much better.

  3. #13
    Join Date
    Sep 2003
    Posts
    12,970
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: as etc.

    No.3
    A new idea is first condemned as ridiculous, and then dismissed as trivial, __________ finally it becomes what everybody knows.

    a. until finally it
    b. before finally it before it finally


    No.7
    Some scientists think that trial-and-error methods help to show how intelligent _______.

    a. is an animal
    b. an animal is

    OK. There are 3 points to consider here. First, the noun phrase, an animal is the subject, so it needs to sit before the verb: choice b. Second, how functions as an adverbial. It modifies the adjective intelligent. That phrase functions as an argument of the verb help to show; i.e., help to show [someone] [something] => help to show us how intelligent an animal is. Lastly, the clause an animal is is a post-modifier: how intelligent /that/ an animal is. (Please note, I inserted that to show you the division, but it doesn't and shouldn't go there.)

    Does that helps?

    All the best.

  4. #14
    Join Date
    Sep 2003
    Posts
    12,970
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: as etc.

    Quote Originally Posted by Super Sonic View Post
    Oh... So it is wrong to use apostrophe in such situations?
    Well, yes and no. It could lead to ambiguity:

    those of my grandparents'
    [1] those characteristics of my grandparents' age.
    [2] My grandparents' characteristics

    Hope that helps.

    All the best.

  5. #15
    jiang is offline Key Member
    • Member Info
      • Member Type:
      • Student or Learner
      • Native Language:
      • Chinese
      • Home Country:
      • China
      • Current Location:
      • China
    Join Date
    Nov 2003
    Posts
    2,671
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: as etc.

    Dear Cas,
    I understand No.3 now.
    No.7
    Please read the sentence:

    Look at the delight a one-or two-year-old takes in learning, and you see how powerful is the human will to learn. This is an inverted sentence. It can be written:

    Look at the delight a one-or two-year-old takes in learning, and you see how powerful the human will to learn is. What I don't understand is why the above sentence can be inverted while my example, that is '...is an animal' and '.....an animal is' can't be inverted. Does it mean the above sentence has ' the human will to learn' as a phrase so it can be inverted?

    Looking forward to hearing from you.
    Thank you in advance.
    Jiang

    Quote Originally Posted by Casiopea View Post
    No.3
    A new idea is first condemned as ridiculous, and then dismissed as trivial, __________ finally it becomes what everybody knows.

    a. until finally it
    b. before finally it before it finally


    No.7
    Some scientists think that trial-and-error methods help to show how intelligent _______.

    a. is an animal
    b. an animal is

    OK. There are 3 points to consider here. First, the noun phrase, an animal is the subject, so it needs to sit before the verb: choice b. Second, how functions as an adverbial. It modifies the adjective intelligent. That phrase functions as an argument of the verb help to show; i.e., help to show [someone] [something] => help to show us how intelligent an animal is. Lastly, the clause an animal is is a post-modifier: how intelligent /that/ an animal is. (Please note, I inserted that to show you the division, but it doesn't and shouldn't go there.)

    Does that helps?

    All the best.

  6. #16
    dihen is offline Member
    • Member Info
      • Member Type:
      • Student or Learner
      • Native Language:
      • (Afan) Oromo
      • Home Country:
      • Aaland
      • Current Location:
      • United States
    Join Date
    Dec 2005
    Posts
    475
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: as etc.

    Quote Originally Posted by Casiopea View Post
    Yes, I am aware of that, dihen. It's the "base form". From that structure we derive the statement and the question.
    I derive the WH-question form from "how" preceding the adjective.

  7. #17
    Join Date
    Sep 2003
    Posts
    12,970
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: as etc.

    Quote Originally Posted by dihen View Post
    I derive the WH-question form from "how" preceding the adjective.
    But the structure we're dealing with isn't a WH-question.

  8. #18
    Join Date
    Sep 2003
    Posts
    12,970
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: as etc.

    As statements, the a. examples are awkward:

    a. how powerful is the human will to learn.
    b. how powerful the human will to learn is.

    a. how intelligent is an animal.
    b. how intelligent an animal is.

    By the way, there this rule out there that warns us not to end a sentence with the verb is - you'll find it along with other like rules, such as the one that states you shouldn't end a sentence with a preposition. Now, they aren't rules I follow, but some writers do follow them, and that in itself might account for the a. examples. The writer or speaker might invert the subject-verb in order to accommodate a rule - it makes no sense whatsoever, the rule as well as the resulting structure.

    !End a sentence with is. Otherwise ambiguity results:

    b. how intelligent an animal is. <Word order tells us an animal is the subject>
    a. how intelligent is an animal. <Which one of those is the subject?>

    The verb is copular. It links, conjoins, it's ambi-structural: X = Y and Y = X. The only way to determine the subject is to rely on the word order. The subject is always first.

    X = Y <X = subject>
    Y = X <Y = subject>

    a. how intelligent is an animal <not the subject of the verb>
    b. how intelligent an animal is <the subject of the verb>

    All the best.

  9. #19
    jiang is offline Key Member
    • Member Info
      • Member Type:
      • Student or Learner
      • Native Language:
      • Chinese
      • Home Country:
      • China
      • Current Location:
      • China
    Join Date
    Nov 2003
    Posts
    2,671
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: as etc.

    Dear Cas,
    Thank you very much for your explanation. The following is from my textbook:
    How beautiful are the flowers!
    What a peaceful city is Hangzhou!
    That's why I asked if 'how intelligent is an animal'.
    Looking forward to hearing from you.
    Thank you in advance.

    Jiang
    Quote Originally Posted by Casiopea View Post
    As statements, the a. examples are awkward:

    a. how powerful is the human will to learn.
    b. how powerful the human will to learn is.

    a. how intelligent is an animal.
    b. how intelligent an animal is.

    By the way, there this rule out there that warns us not to end a sentence with the verb is - you'll find it along with other like rules, such as the one that states you shouldn't end a sentence with a preposition. Now, they aren't rules I follow, but some writers do follow them, and that in itself might account for the a. examples. The writer or speaker might invert the subject-verb in order to accommodate a rule - it makes no sense whatsoever, the rule as well as the resulting structure.

    !End a sentence with is. Otherwise ambiguity results:

    b. how intelligent an animal is. <Word order tells us an animal is the subject>
    a. how intelligent is an animal. <Which one of those is the subject?>

    The verb is copular. It links, conjoins, it's ambi-structural: X = Y and Y = X. The only way to determine the subject is to rely on the word order. The subject is always first.

    X = Y <X = subject>
    Y = X <Y = subject>

    a. how intelligent is an animal <not the subject of the verb>
    b. how intelligent an animal is <the subject of the verb>

    All the best.

  10. #20
    Super Sonic is offline Member
    • Member Info
      • Member Type:
      • Student or Learner
      • Native Language:
      • Turkish
      • Home Country:
      • Turkey
      • Current Location:
      • Turkey
    Join Date
    Dec 2006
    Posts
    230
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: as etc.

    Quote Originally Posted by Casiopea View Post
    Well, yes and no. It could lead to ambiguity:

    those of my grandparents'
    [1] those characteristics of my grandparents' age.
    [2] My grandparents' characteristics

    Hope that helps.

    All the best.
    Umm, thanks for the effort, but I don't seem to get it

    We can say "My grandfather's characteristics...", right? Then why can't we say "My grandparents' characteristics..."?

    Edit: Is it because of the animate, inanimate rule of posession?

Page 2 of 6 FirstFirst 1 2 3 4 5 6 LastLast

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •