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  1. #31
    bianca is offline Senior Member
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    Default Re: Any grammar or interpretation mistakes, or any oddities?

    This wholepoem is an allegory of death. The frozen landscape of the poem, repleting with figurative, metaphorical meanings, from the sweeping wing to the deep, dark wood, endorses this theory. Furthermore, both the visual and the auditive imagery (as I touched upon previously) and other stylistic devises such as the repetition of the last two lines, of the sound "s" and "i" and the use of voiceless consonants, they all play a role in creating an atmosphere of melancholy and despondency. The poem has, in other words, a figurative, non-literal meaning. I was wondering what promises the horserider has to keep, and what "miles to go before /he/ sleeps", and it occurs to me that he probably cannot afford to die since he is young and hasn't sorted out his life yet.

  2. #32
    asad hussain is offline Member
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    Default Re: Any grammar or interpretation mistakes, or any oddities?

    Hi Casiopea,

    Quote Originally Posted by Casiopea View Post
    That's my question too. Sorry? I thought you added that 'he'.

    Well, we differ there. I am quite baffled. I don't have any idea how you see the question. I did what I could. I will be very thankful to you, if you give the question a try (i.e., if you answer the question.). I am completely out of ideas now.

    There's no need, but thank you just the same. (My purpose, to correct your work, not to correct the ideas and suggestions made by others. )
    That's once again so nice of you. I'll be very pleased, if you answer the questions. You've put too many 'whys' in the middle of my answers. I really don't know their answers. As I just said, I am out of ideas now, I don't really know how to answer the questions being asked. I will put my final answers in the next question. Could you please correct my work? It will be sooooooooooooooooooooooo kind of you.



    [size=3][font=Times New Roman][color=black]You haven't actually answered the question being asked.

    All the best.

  3. #33
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    Default Re: Any grammar or interpretation mistakes, or any oddities?

    Asad, it's a homework assignment. I can't give you the answers. The work has to come from you. All I can do is guide you though.

  4. #34
    asad hussain is offline Member
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    Default Re: Any grammar or interpretation mistakes, or any oddities?

    Quote Originally Posted by Casiopea View Post
    Asad, it's a homework assignment. I can't give you the answers. The work has to come from you. All I can do is guide you though.
    Dear Casiopea,
    So many thanks for the reply, but please believe me it's not "ANY HOMEWORK ASSIGNMENT". I've mentioned it the previous posts. I'm a Math and Science teacher, and it's kind of I am helping a student with a subject I don't teach.

    By the way, sorry - I couldn't post my final answers. Actually, just as I was pasting them, I got disconnected. So, I am really sorry about that.

    Here are the latest answers now.

    Stanza # 04

    Why canít the poet wait to enjoy the beauty of the woods?
    He canít wait to enjoy the beauty of the woods, because he has too many responsibilities to fulfill, and he has a long distance to travel before he can rest for the night. What if I omit the the highlighted phrase? Does it sound fine then?

    Why does he repeat the third line?
    He repeats the third line in order to imprint it on the readerís memory and to emphasize the presence of a non-literal, rather than a literal meaning. In other words, the repetition gives the reader of the poem the opportunity to go beyond the literal into the figurative. Furthermore, the poem has a strict rhyme scheme. The first three stanzas are in the form: aaba bbcb ccdc. There is a three-line rhyme pattern; the line that does not rhyme provides the rhyme for the next stanza. There are just enough stanzas to establish a pattern. The fourth stanza is the last. Since there is no stanza after it, the third line cannot have a non-rhyming line. Now, instead of having just three lines, or just four rhyming lines, the poet chose to repeat the last line. This gives a powerful feeling of "closure"; not only is there no new rhyme, but there is not even a new line. The first "sleep" disrupts our expectation of a non-rhyming line; the repetition terminates the poem.

    Which letters have been repeated in the last stanza?
    1. Any English text that contains more than 26 letters must repeat at least one letter. Some letter-repetitions are a function of the language itself. I shall therefore look not for all repetitions, but for "meaningful repetitions", i.e. repetitions that either follow a pattern, or are conventional poetic tools (such as rhymes or alliteration).

    2. Since most poetry works best when read aloud, I am going to look for repeated "spoken letters", rather than for "written letters". For example, the letter "o" is written down a lot, but since it sounds different in "wood", "lovely" or "promises", I will not count it as a repetition (meaningful or otherwise). Similarly, since the two o's in "wood" represent a single sound, I will treat the "oo" as one letter only.

    The most obvious repetition in the stanza is the end-rhyme "-eep", or rather [i:p]. All instances of "ee" (or [i:]) are in the last syllable. The letter "p" concludes each line, and is only found once within the lines: at the beginning of the word promise.

    Line one contains an alliteration. Two words start with the letter "d". Three of the four d's that occur in the last stanza are in the phrase "dark and deep" (the remaining one being in "woods"). Two of them are at the start of a word, and one concludes "and". Whether the d in "and" is articulated or not depends on the reader of the poem. Leaving out the d in "and" (or rather conflating it with the d in "deep") enhances the alliterative effect.

    Finally, in lines two, three, and four the letter "i", as [ai], is repeated in prominent positions. In both lines two and three the "i" is thevowel in the second syllable; in line three it is also thevowel in the next to last syllable. (The fourth line is an exact repetition of the third line, so naturally the "i"-pattern of the third line is repeated as well.)

    Why have they been repeated?
    The rhyme "i:p" has been repeated to contribute to the poems line-structure. The repetition of the "p" in the word "promises" helps the word stand out as a key word. This effect is enhanced by using an "I" sound, a shorter and darker version of the vowel [i:] from the rhyme, which is not repeated elsewhere in the stanza.

    The alliteration "dark and deep" helps make the phrase a unit, standing together against "lovely". These three adjectives are used to describe the "woods", the only other word in the poem that contains a d. The phonetic contrast between "lovely" and "dark and deep" is analogous to the semantic difference. "Lovely" is an evaluation, whereas "dark and deep" are merely descriptive. Since the word "woods" also contains a "d" it is the word "lovely" that stands out. This enhances the semantic difference: things that are "dark and deep" are not conventionally evaluated as "lovely".

    Finally, looking at the [ai] repetition one notices that [ai] is not only a diphthong, it is also a word. And in three of the five instances the diphthong means exactly that. The repetition of [ai] in the word miles is not semantically meaningful, but since it occupies the same position in the third and fourth lines that the word "I" occupied in the second, it can be read as a feint echo of the word, emphasising that the poet - who last explicitly appeared in the first line, and implicitly in the first line of the second stanza (my little horse) - has returned to his poem.

  5. #35
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    Default Re: Any grammar or interpretation mistakes, or any oddities?

    Quote Originally Posted by asad hussain View Post
    it's not "ANY HOMEWORK ASSIGNMENT". I've mentioned it the previous posts. I'm a Math and Science teacher, and it's kind of I am helping a student with a subject I don't teach.
    I seem to recall you(r) having said that before. There's a saying, "Once bitten, twice shy", which the Chinese seem to express much better, Fool me once, shame on you; fool me twice, shame on me.

    As I said, I can guide you, only.

    Stanza # 04

    Why canít the poet wait to enjoy the beauty of the woods?
    He canít wait to enjoy the beauty of the woods, because he has too many responsibilities to fulfill, and he has a long distance to travel before he can rest for the night. What if I omit the the highlighted phrase? Does it sound fine then?
    If you want to omit he has, then you should get rid of the comma after fulfill.


    Why does he repeat the third line?
    He repeats the third line in order to imprint it on the readerís memory and to emphasize the presence of a non-literal, rather than a literal meaning. In other words, the repetition gives the reader of the poem the opportunity to go beyond the literal into the figurative. Have you explained the literal meaning and the non-literal meaning elsewhere, or is this the first time we see these terms? Furthermore, the poem has a strict rhyme scheme. The first three stanzas are in the form: aaba bbcb ccdc. There is a three-line rhyme pattern; the line that does not rhyme provides the rhyme for the next stanza. There are just enough stanzas to establish a pattern. Why is that important. That is, why are you mentioning it? The fourth stanza is the last. Since there is no stanza after it, the third line cannot have a non-rhyming line. What do you want the reader to understand? Now, instead of having just three lines, or just four rhyming lines, the poet repeats the last line. This gives a powerful feeling of "closure"; not only is there no new rhyme, but there is not even a new line. I don't understand what that means. The first "sleep" disrupts our expectation of a non-rhyming line; the repetition terminates the poem. OK. So, now we know how the poet repeats the last line, but we still don't know why he does it. Note, there's way too much language in your answer and not enough meaning to go with it.

    Which letters have been repeated in the last stanza?
    1. Any English text that contains more than 26 letters must repeat at least one letter. Some letter-repetitions are a function of the language itself. I shall therefore look not for all repetitions, but for "meaningful repetitions", i.e. repetitions that either follow a pattern, or are conventional poetic tools (such as rhymes or alliteration). Unnecessary. In fact, it draws the reader away from the point, which is fairly straightforward: which letters have been repeated?

    2. Since most poetry works best when read aloud, I am going to look for repeated "spoken letters", rather than for "written letters". For example, the letter "o" is written down a lot, but since it sounds different in "wood", "lovely" or "promises", I will not count it as a repetition (meaningful or otherwise). Similarly, since the two o's in "wood" represent a single sound, I will treat the "oo" as one letter only. That isn't necessary either.

    The most obvious repetition in the stanza is the end-rhyme "-eep", or rather [i:p]. All instances of "ee" (or [i:]) are in the last syllable. The letter "p" concludes each line, and is only found once within the lines: at the beginning of the word promise. Finally. Mind you, those are not your prose. Why ask me to correct someone else's writing? Asad, ... My comments end here.

  6. #36
    asad hussain is offline Member
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    Default Re: Any grammar or interpretation mistakes, or any oddities?

    Hi again,

    Quote Originally Posted by Casiopea View Post
    I seem to recall you(r) having said that before. There's a saying, "Once bitten, twice shy", which the Chinese seem to express much better, Fool me once, shame on you; fool me twice, shame on me. I swear it's not a homework assignment. I don't know how to make you believe it now. Even, why would I lie and make a fool out of you? If you still think I am trying to fool you, please don't help me anymore. I am so grateful to you for whatever you've done for me yet. It's an eternal deal of help. And I pray you get the best return.

    As I said, I can guide you, only.

    If you want to omit he has, then you should get rid of the comma after fulfill. Which is better? Leaving out the phrase or keeping it in??

    Why does he repeat the third line?
    He repeats the third line in order to imprint it on the readerís memory and to emphasize the presence of a non-literal, rather than a literal meaning. In other words, the repetition gives the reader of the poem the opportunity to go beyond the literal into the figurative. Have you explained the literal meaning and the non-literal meaning elsewhere, or is this the first time we see these terms? No, I haven't explained them as such. I've mentioned them in the commentary, and other key literary elements.
    Furthermore, the poem has a strict rhyme scheme. The first three stanzas are in the form: aaba bbcb ccdc. There is a three-line rhyme pattern; the line that does not rhyme provides the rhyme for the next stanza. There are just enough stanzas to establish a pattern. Why is that important. That is, why are you mentioning it? I am mentioning it to make the student understand that for the first three stanzas, the rhyme scheme is consistent. The pattern is aaba bbcb ccdc. The forth stanza, however, rhymes every line with 'deep' (i.e. 'keep' and 'sleep' rhyme with 'deep'). If the poet chose a non-rhyming word, he would have to extend the poem, and in this way the poem would never end. So, I think, he felt it better to terminate the poem here by repeating the line.
    The fourth stanza is the last. Since there is no stanza after it, the third line cannot have a non-rhyming line. What do you want the reader to understand? I've answered it above. If you still have any confusions, feel free to ask any questions. I've described the style of the poem to back up the purpose of the poet behind repeating the lines. Now, instead of having just three lines, or just four rhyming lines, the poet repeats Is 'chose to repeat' wrong? the last line. This gives a powerful feeling of "closure"; not only is there no new rhyme, but there is not even a new line. I don't understand what that means. What I mean by saying this is the rhyme scheme of the last stanza makes the poem sound more musical. It clings to the mind long after the sense may be forgotten. The first "sleep" disrupts our expectation of a non-rhyming line; the repetition terminates the poem. OK. So, now we know how the poet repeats the last line, but we still don't know why he does it.

    Note, there's way too much language in your answer and not enough meaning to go with it. I did it to make the answer clearer. I really bent over my backwards to satisfy the demand of the question, but unfortunately couldn't succeed in my endeavours, and I am really very upset for that.

    I asked you to answer the question, because I wanted to see what reason you see for that repeatition.

    Which letters have been repeated in the last stanza?
    [1. Any English text that contains more than 26 letters must repeat at least one letter. Some letter-repetitions are a function of the language itself. I shall therefore look not for all repetitions, but for "meaningful repetitions", i.e. repetitions that either follow a pattern, or are conventional poetic tools (such as rhymes or alliteration). Unnecessary. In fact, it draws the reader away from the point, which is fairly straightforward: which letters have been repeated?

    2. Since most poetry works best when read aloud, I am going to look for repeated "spoken letters", rather than for "written letters". For example, the letter "o" is written down a lot, but since it sounds different in "wood", "lovely" or "promises", I will not count it as a repetition (meaningful or otherwise). Similarly, since the two o's in "wood" represent a single sound, I will treat the "oo" as one letter only. That isn't necessary either. ]

    Yes, I agree, but neither they would do any harm. Again, I put them to back up the following.

    The most obvious repetition in the stanza is the end-rhyme "-eep", or rather [i:p]. All instances of "ee" (or [i:]) are in the last syllable. The letter "p" concludes each line, and is only found once within the lines: at the beginning of the word promise. Finally. Mind you, those are not your prose. Why ask me to correct someone else's writing? Asad, ... My comments end here. I mostly try to speak my mind, but I don't feel any dent in my pride in following a good thing of a person. I used someone else's words, because they allowed me. I think I could never have written this way. And my answers were almost the same, though I couldn't put them in words. So, I felt it better to use the words. And I asked you to correct them, because I wanted take your opinion, too.
    ******

    I would again like to say "PLEASE DON'T HELP ME ANYMORE, IF YOU STILL THINK I AM LYING AND TRYING TO MAKE YOU FOOL. ANY SO MANY THANKS FOR WHATEVER YOU HAVE DONE FOR ME YET. I WILL REMEMBER THIS TILL THE END OF MY LIFE. AND I REALLY REALLY MEAN IT!"
    Last edited by asad hussain; 01-May-2007 at 02:53.

  7. #37
    Noego is offline Senior Member
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    Default Re: Any grammar or interpretation mistakes, or any oddities?

    I think the reason why Cas believes this is an homework assignment is because it really looks like one.

    Don't worry too much about it. She has the right to think it's a homework assignment if she wants to.

    I think you should just accept the help whatever form in takes (just like you're doing right now).

    My point is, you don't have to justify yourself. Just carry on in your attempt to understand the text with the help of others and spend all of your energy on that.

    Just my thoughts.

    All the best.

  8. #38
    asad hussain is offline Member
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    Default Re: Any grammar or interpretation mistakes, or any oddities?

    Quote Originally Posted by Noego View Post
    I think the reason why Cas believes this is an homework assignment is because it really looks like one.

    Don't worry too much about it. She has the right to think it's a homework assignment if she wants to.

    I think you should just accept the help whatever form in takes (just like you're doing right now).

    My point is, you don't have to justify yourself. Just carry on in your attempt to understand the text with the help of others and spend all of your energy on that.

    Just my thoughts.

    All the best.
    Hi Noego,

    That's about the size of it! Many thanks for the advice!

    With best regards,

    Asad

  9. #39
    asad hussain is offline Member
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    Default Re: Any grammar or interpretation mistakes, or any oddities?

    Can someone help me wade through the issues my dear and respected fellow Casiopea has raised?

    I am just unable to assemble the thoughts and words that can blossom my answers. My dear fellows Dawnstorm, Casiopea and ofcourse Bianca have helped me so much by giving very commendable suggestions and comments and also by doing revisions of my work. I apologize to Bianca that I forgot to thank him for his such great suggestions. I hope he wouldn't have minded it. I love and respect you all. Please, forgive me, if I ever forget to thank you or don't thank you adequately.

    With best regards,
    Asad

  10. #40
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    Default Re: Any grammar or interpretation mistakes, or any oddities?

    Quote Originally Posted by asad hussain View Post
    I am just unable to assemble the thoughts and words that can blossom my answers.
    Asad, we do not do assignments, which includes assignment-related work. We can offer you suggestions about how to improve your grammar, vocabulary, sentence structure, and flow, but we will not and cannot help you answer or write the assignment. The work has to come from you. Our suggestions are meant to help you understand where you need to improve in your writing, to empower you.

    If you have "specific" questions about grammar, vocabulary, sentence structure, and/or meaning, we will be more than happy to answers your questions.

    Please note, even if the poem you're working on at the moment isn't an assignment, it is still an assignment for countless other students who are searching the Web looking for the answers to Robert Frost's poem. Given that wider perspective, that this is a public forum and anybody can access these pages, I hope you'll understand why it is that we cannot help you with your request.

    In the future, please do not submit assignment-related work.

    All the best.

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