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Thread: Subject

  1. #1
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    According to Mr Micheal Swan (pratical English usage, page 486), the first line said:
    "note that the conjunction (the second that) is usually dropped in this tructure, it must be dropped if the relative pronoun is a subject
    This is the woman (who/that) Ann said could show us the church

    I think he implied '(who/that" formed as a subject but I think the subject is only "This is the woman " (who/that) is just a conjunction..... Am I right? Could you please make it clearer?


    2) This question has nothing to do with the one above,I've seen on the 4th page of Oxford dictionary Advanced learner's dictionary, and I found out these line:
    First published I948 (12 impressions)
    ... Seventh edition (4th impression)
    I really don't understand "impression" there and the 4th, please help.

  2. #2
    svartnik is offline Banned
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    Default Re: Subject

    Quote Originally Posted by Belly T View Post
    According to Mr Micheal Swan (pratical English usage, page 486), the first line said:
    "note that the conjunction (the second that) is usually dropped in this tructure, it must be dropped if the relative pronoun is a subject
    This is the woman (who/that) Ann said could show us the church

    I think he implied '(who/that" formed as a subject but I think the subject is only "This is the woman " (who/that) is just a conjunction..... Am I right? Could you please make it clearer?


    2) This question has nothing to do with the one above,I've seen on the 4th page of Oxford dictionary Advanced learner's dictionary, and I found out these line:
    First published I948 (12 impressions)
    ... Seventh edition (4th impression)
    I really don't understand "impression" there and the 4th, please help.

    "This is the woman (who/that) Ann said could show us the church."
    In this sentence, the grammatical subject is "This".
    "This" has only grammatical function (dummy word) and co-refers with "the woman who...", the notional subject of the sentence.

    Grammatically, this is an SVC sentence

  3. #3
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    Default Re: Subject

    What's a SVC sentence?
    And I don't really get what is the dummy one, and what is not.
    But I think the relative pronouns function as a conjunction.
    Could you really help me more?

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    Default Re: Subject

    Quote Originally Posted by svartnik View Post
    "This" has only grammatical function (dummy word) and co-refers with "the woman who...", the notional subject of the sentence.
    I politely disagree. The pronoun This is a demonstrative, indicating the close (spacial) proximity of its referent, the woman. It's also substantive. It substitutes for a noun phrase:

    Ex: This person (here) is the woman...

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    Default Re: Subject

    Belly T, in other words, the woman is a subject predicate for this as well as a subject for could show:

    Ex: This is the woman (who/that) Ann said could show us the church.
    Ex: Anne said this is the woman (who/that) could show us the church.

    As for the meaning of impressions, what's your best guess? The context is quite helpful.
    Last edited by Casiopea; 10-May-2007 at 11:10.

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    Default Re: Subject

    Quote Originally Posted by Casiopea View Post
    Belly T, in other words, the woman is a subject predicate for this as well as a subject for could show:

    Ex: This is the woman (who/that) Ann said could show us the church.
    Ex: Anne said this is the woman (who/that) could show us the church.

    As for the meaning of impressions, what's your best guess? The context is quite helpful.
    Maybe "inmpression" here implies the times the book printed, but how about 4th?
    Casi, according to Micheal " must be dropped if the relative pronoun is a subject", realtive pronoun here is (who/that), isn't it?



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    Default Re: Subject

    Quote Originally Posted by Belly T View Post
    Casi, according to Micheal " must be dropped if the relative pronoun is a subject", realtive pronoun here is (who/that), isn't it?
    Second that, not the first:

    Ex: This is the woman that Anne said *that could show us the church.

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    Default Re: Subject

    Second that here is a dummy one? And it is auxiliary?

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    Default Re: Subject

    Quote Originally Posted by Belly T View Post
    Second that here is a dummy one? And it is auxiliary?
    The second that is not a dummy subject, nor is it an auxiliary. Try looking at it this way:

    [1] Anne said (that) this is the woman that would show us the church.

    The second that is needed. It functions as the structural subject of would show us the church.

    [2] This is the woman (that) Anne said (that) that would show us the church.

    The second that must be dropped because there are actually two consequtive thats underlyingly; that is, the second that is actually the third that:

    This is the woman (that) Anne said (that) that would show us the church.

    The first two are conjunctions, the last one is a subject.

    Does that help?
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