Page 1 of 2 1 2 LastLast
Results 1 to 10 of 11

Thread: have

  1. #1
    Join Date
    Oct 2006
    Posts
    133
    Post Thanks / Like

    Default have

    The paragraph related to the question is .....

    In the future doctors will diagnose illnesses differently, or we may not need doctors at all. We may be able to decide for ourselves what the problem is. We might look up symptoms on the Internet and order a testing kit to check our blood for diseases we have. We may not even have to do this. We may actually have microchips in our bodies ___________ (examine) our blood pressure, temperature, and heartbeat on a daily basis.

    Can the blank be filled with " examine - base form" , or "examining"?
    I think both are possible.
    What do you think?
    I appreciate your kind replies in advance.

  2. #2
    Join Date
    Sep 2003
    Posts
    12,970
    Post Thanks / Like

    Default Re: have

    The structure I see is to have someone or something do something for us:

    Ex: We may actually have microchips in our bodies (do this for us=>) examine our blood pressure, temperature, and heartbeat on a daily basis.

    Does that help?

  3. #3
    Join Date
    Oct 2006
    Posts
    133
    Post Thanks / Like

    Default Re: have

    Quote Originally Posted by Casiopea View Post
    The structure I see is to have someone or something do something for us:

    Ex: We may actually have microchips in our bodies (do this for us=>) examine our blood pressure, temperature, and heartbeat on a daily basis.

    Does that help?

    When have is used as a causative verb, it takes agent and base form.
    So exmaine is correct. right?

    I have a question about this.
    When have is used as a causative verb, agent and -ing form is impossible?

    The movie had me crying.
    or
    I had my car going.

    I'm not clear about it.
    Please help me out.

    Thank you, Casiopea.

  4. #4
    Join Date
    Sep 2003
    Posts
    12,970
    Post Thanks / Like

    Default Re: have

    Maybe causative isn't the intended meaning. What about?

    Non-causative
    One day, we may actually have (i.e., possess) microchips in our bodies that examine our blood pressure, etc.

    Causative
    One day, we may actually have (i.e., get) microchips that are already in our bodies examining/examine our blood pressure, etc.

    Do you see the difference?

  5. #5
    Join Date
    Oct 2006
    Posts
    133
    Post Thanks / Like

    Default Re: have

    Quote Originally Posted by Casiopea View Post
    Maybe causative isn't the intended meaning. What about?

    Non-causative
    One day, we may actually have (i.e., possess) microchips in our bodies that examine our blood pressure, etc.

    Causative
    One day, we may actually have (i.e., get) microchips that are already in our bodies examining/examine our blood pressure, etc.

    Do you see the difference?

    You mean you don't think 'have' in this sentece is a causative verb?
    If 'have' is not a causative verb, examining is grammatically right, I think.

    Non-causative
    One day, we may actually have (i.e., possess) microchips in our bodies that examine our blood pressure, etc.
    In the sentence you have constructed, that examine (underlined part) can be changed like 'examining', not 'examine'.
    Am I wrong?
    Last edited by siruss; 19-May-2007 at 12:01.

  6. #6
    Join Date
    Sep 2003
    Posts
    12,970
    Post Thanks / Like

    Default Re: have

    Quote Originally Posted by siruss View Post
    In the sentence you have constructed, [the non-causative one; i.e., have means possess], that examine (underlined part) can be changed like 'examining', not 'examine'.
    Am I wrong?
    You are right.

    The cerebral gymnastics were fun.

    All the best.

  7. #7
    Join Date
    Oct 2006
    Posts
    133
    Post Thanks / Like

    Default Re: have

    Quote Originally Posted by Casiopea View Post
    You are right.

    The cerebral gymnastics were fun.

    All the best.

    Thank you, Casiopea

    Do you think have in the sentence has a possessive meaning, not a casautive meaning?
    If you cross out the possibility that have might be a casautive verb,
    I want to know why.

    I really want to know.
    Even though I'm not a native English speaker, I want to sound natural
    when I speak English.
    To me, have microchips in our bodies examine ~ sounds natural.
    So I think I will use that kind of expression while I speak English.

    Sorry to ask you without stopping.
    I need advice.

  8. #8
    Join Date
    Sep 2003
    Posts
    12,970
    Post Thanks / Like

    Default Re: have

    Here are my interpretations:



    Non-causative
    [1] We may actually have microchips that do this, examine our blood pressure.
    [2] We may actually have microchips doing this, examining our blood pressure.
    Note, our original example sentence (post #1) doesn't house relative that. If I add it in, I get a non-causative reading, [1], and if I leave it out, I get a causative one, [3]:



    Causative
    [3] We may actually have microchips do this, examine our blood pressure.
    As for changing examine to a present participle, I can't get a causative reading here, no matter how hard I try to bend my wetware that way:

    [4] We may actually have microchips doing this, examining our blood pressure.
    Compare the above with this,

    [5] We may actually have Max washing the car, if...
    In other words, we may actually get Max to do something if ... Now,


    [6] We may actually have Max washing the car by dinner time.
    In other words, we may actually get Max to wash the car by dinner time; Cf. our example sentence, we may actually get microchips to examine us, which is definitely not the author's intended meaning. Thus: present participle examining doesn't work in that particular causative context. (I don't know why )

    What are your thoughts?
    Last edited by Casiopea; 19-May-2007 at 13:21.

  9. #9
    Join Date
    Oct 2006
    Posts
    133
    Post Thanks / Like

    Default Re: have

    Thanks for your kind explanation and patience,Casiopea.

    I'd like to ask last two things.

    1. Is it ok to think like this?

    have someone or something base form (infinitive without 'to')
    -->casautive have

    have something past participle
    --> casautive have

    have something present participle
    --> not casautive have

    2. have somebody do something
    make somebody do something

    Is there any difference in meaning?
    have and make are both causatives.

    ex) I made my students read 30 pages a day.
    I had my students read 30 pages a day.

    Would you please tell me how the two sentences read to you?

  10. #10
    Join Date
    Sep 2003
    Posts
    12,970
    Post Thanks / Like

    Default Re: have

    Question #1: distribution
    a. have someone or something base form --> casautive have
    b. have something past participle --> casautive have
    c. have something present participle --> not casautive have
    e.g., I had my car going / got my car to go, and then it stopped.

    Question #2: meaning
    To me, there is a slight difference in meaning between causative have and make. The latter has more force; i.e., I forced something/something to do something, whereas the former suggests less force, or even that I may have had someone else do it for me:

    Ex: I made the guy give me back my money. (forced)
    Ex: I had the guy give me back my money. (persuaded)

    Does that help?

Page 1 of 2 1 2 LastLast

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •