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  1. #1
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    Default beneath/underneath

    I'm confused with these prepositions:


    I lie under a stary night.
    I lie underneath the skyline.

    There are caves under the bround.
    There are caves underneath the ground.
    There are caves beneath the ground. (this is wrong)


    Is there any possible rules I can use to explain to students?



    sabrina

  2. #2
    MikeNewYork's Avatar
    MikeNewYork is offline VIP Member
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    Default Re: beneath/underneath

    [quote="blacknomi"]I'm confused with these prepositions:


    I lie under a stary night.
    I lie underneath the skyline.

    There are caves under the bround.
    There are caves underneath the ground.
    There are caves beneath the ground. (this is wrong)


    Is there any possible rules I can use to explain to students?[/quiote]

    The prepositions "beneath", "underneath", and "under" are synonyms. In most cases, they can be used interchangeably. There are some idioms and pat phrases that do not allow substitutions, however. If there are any differences, they would be mostly with the "unders", IMO. I wouldn't use "under" or "underneath" unless what was I was "under (neath)" was actually over me. I would use "beneath" (or below) for things that are higher than I, but not directly over me. For example, I could walk "beneath" the trees without having tree limbs directly over my head. But I would only use "under" and "underneat" if the tree limbs were actually over my position.

    One can't lie under a night of any kind. It is also not idiomatic to lie under a skyline.

    All three of your cave examples work for me. :wink:

  3. #3
    Susie Smith Guest

    Default Re: beneath/underneath

    [quote="MikeNewYork"]
    Quote Originally Posted by blacknomi
    I'm confused with these prepositions:


    I lie under a stary night.
    I lie underneath the skyline.

    There are caves under the bround.
    There are caves underneath the ground.
    There are caves beneath the ground. (this is wrong)


    Is there any possible rules I can use to explain to students?[/quiote]

    The prepositions "beneath", "underneath", and "under" are synonyms. In most cases, they can be used interchangeably. There are some idioms and pat phrases that do not allow substitutions, however. If there are any differences, they would be mostly with the "unders", IMO. I wouldn't use "under" or "underneath" unless what was I was "under (neath)" was actually over me. I would use "beneath" (or below) for things that are higher than I, but not directly over me. For example, I could walk "beneath" the trees without having tree limbs directly over my head. But I would only use "under" and "underneat" if the tree limbs were actually over my position.

    One can't lie under a night of any kind. It is also not idiomatic to lie under a skyline.

    All three of your cave examples work for me. :wink:
    There's a fourth synonym - below. You can say that something lies below or above the skyline.

  4. #4
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    Default Re: beneath/underneath

    [quote="MikeNewYork"]
    Quote Originally Posted by blacknomi
    I'm confused with these prepositions:


    I lie under a stary night.
    I lie underneath the skyline.

    There are caves under the bround.
    There are caves underneath the ground.
    There are caves beneath the ground. (this is wrong)


    Is there any possible rules I can use to explain to students?[/quiote]

    The prepositions "beneath", "underneath", and "under" are synonyms. In most cases, they can be used interchangeably. There are some idioms and pat phrases that do not allow substitutions, however. If there are any differences, they would be mostly with the "unders", IMO. I wouldn't use "under" or "underneath" unless what was I was "under (neath)" was actually over me. I would use "beneath" (or below) for things that are higher than I, but not directly over me. For example, I could walk "beneath" the trees without having tree limbs directly over my head. But I would only use "under" and "underneat" if the tree limbs were actually over my position.

    One can't lie under a night of any kind. It is also not idiomatic to lie under a skyline.

    All three of your cave examples work for me. :wink:

    LeAnn Rimes
    1.Can't fight the moonlight

    *Under a lover's sky
    Gonna be with you
    And no one's gonna be around
    *If you think that you won't fall
    Well just wait untill
    'Til the sun goes down

    Underneath the starlight, starlight
    There's a magical feeling so right
    It will steal your heart tonight

    Thank you, Mike.

    BUT
    In her lyrics, can one lie under a love's sky? It a bit conflicts with what you mentioned.



    sabrina

  5. #5
    Susie Smith Guest

    Default Re: beneath/underneath

    [quote="blacknomi"]
    Quote Originally Posted by MikeNewYork
    Quote Originally Posted by blacknomi
    I'm confused with these prepositions:


    I lie under a stary night.
    I lie underneath the skyline.

    There are caves under the bround.
    There are caves underneath the ground.
    There are caves beneath the ground. (this is wrong)


    Is there any possible rules I can use to explain to students?[/quiote]

    The prepositions "beneath", "underneath", and "under" are synonyms. In most cases, they can be used interchangeably. There are some idioms and pat phrases that do not allow substitutions, however. If there are any differences, they would be mostly with the "unders", IMO. I wouldn't use "under" or "underneath" unless what was I was "under (neath)" was actually over me. I would use "beneath" (or below) for things that are higher than I, but not directly over me. For example, I could walk "beneath" the trees without having tree limbs directly over my head. But I would only use "under" and "underneat" if the tree limbs were actually over my position.

    One can't lie under a night of any kind. It is also not idiomatic to lie under a skyline.

    All three of your cave examples work for me. :wink:

    LeAnn Rimes
    1.Can't fight the moonlight

    *Under a lover's sky
    Gonna be with you
    And no one's gonna be around
    *If you think that you won't fall
    Well just wait untill
    'Til the sun goes down

    Underneath the starlight, starlight
    There's a magical feeling so right
    It will steal your heart tonight

    Thank you, Mike.

    BUT
    In her lyrics, can one lie under a love's sky? It a bit conflicts with what you mentioned.



    sabrina
    All is fair in love and war, and in poetry, too.

  6. #6
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    Default Re: beneath/underneath

    [quote="Susie Smith"]
    Quote Originally Posted by blacknomi
    Quote Originally Posted by MikeNewYork
    Quote Originally Posted by blacknomi
    I'm confused with these prepositions:


    I lie under a stary night.
    I lie underneath the skyline.

    There are caves under the bround.
    There are caves underneath the ground.
    There are caves beneath the ground. (this is wrong)


    Is there any possible rules I can use to explain to students?[/quiote]

    The prepositions "beneath", "underneath", and "under" are synonyms. In most cases, they can be used interchangeably. There are some idioms and pat phrases that do not allow substitutions, however. If there are any differences, they would be mostly with the "unders", IMO. I wouldn't use "under" or "underneath" unless what was I was "under (neath)" was actually over me. I would use "beneath" (or below) for things that are higher than I, but not directly over me. For example, I could walk "beneath" the trees without having tree limbs directly over my head. But I would only use "under" and "underneat" if the tree limbs were actually over my position.

    One can't lie under a night of any kind. It is also not idiomatic to lie under a skyline.

    All three of your cave examples work for me. :wink:

    LeAnn Rimes
    1.Can't fight the moonlight

    *Under a lover's sky
    Gonna be with you
    And no one's gonna be around
    *If you think that you won't fall
    Well just wait untill
    'Til the sun goes down

    Underneath the starlight, starlight
    There's a magical feeling so right
    It will steal your heart tonight

    Thank you, Mike.

    BUT
    In her lyrics, can one lie under a love's sky? It a bit conflicts with what you mentioned.



    sabrina
    All is fair in love and war, and in poetry, too.

    Well...I wish I'll bcome an english Expert when I wake up tomorrow morning.

    I don't really understand the meaning "underneath the startlight". I think under works as well.


    sabrina

  7. #7
    Susie Smith Guest

    Default Re: beneath/underneath

    [quote="blacknomi"]
    Quote Originally Posted by Susie Smith
    Quote Originally Posted by blacknomi
    Quote Originally Posted by MikeNewYork
    Quote Originally Posted by blacknomi
    I'm confused with these prepositions:


    I lie under a stary night.
    I lie underneath the skyline.

    There are caves under the bround.
    There are caves underneath the ground.
    There are caves beneath the ground. (this is wrong)


    Is there any possible rules I can use to explain to students?[/quiote]

    The prepositions "beneath", "underneath", and "under" are synonyms. In most cases, they can be used interchangeably. There are some idioms and pat phrases that do not allow substitutions, however. If there are any differences, they would be mostly with the "unders", IMO. I wouldn't use "under" or "underneath" unless what was I was "under (neath)" was actually over me. I would use "beneath" (or below) for things that are higher than I, but not directly over me. For example, I could walk "beneath" the trees without having tree limbs directly over my head. But I would only use "under" and "underneat" if the tree limbs were actually over my position.

    One can't lie under a night of any kind. It is also not idiomatic to lie under a skyline.

    All three of your cave examples work for me. :wink:

    LeAnn Rimes
    1.Can't fight the moonlight

    *Under a lover's sky
    Gonna be with you
    And no one's gonna be around
    *If you think that you won't fall
    Well just wait untill
    'Til the sun goes down

    Underneath the starlight, starlight
    There's a magical feeling so right
    It will steal your heart tonight

    Thank you, Mike.

    BUT
    In her lyrics, can one lie under a love's sky? It a bit conflicts with what you mentioned.



    sabrina
    All is fair in love and war, and in poetry, too.

    Well...I wish I'll bcome an english Expert when I wake up tomorrow morning.

    I don't really understand the meaning "underneath the startlight". I think under works as well.


    sabrina

  8. #8
    RonBee's Avatar
    RonBee is offline Moderator
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    Default

    Under the sparkling stars, beneath the night sky,
    Feeling the night's chill, I watched a hawk fly.

    :)

  9. #9
    Susie Smith Guest

    Default Re: beneath/underneath

    [quote="Susie Smith"]
    Quote Originally Posted by blacknomi
    Quote Originally Posted by Susie Smith
    Quote Originally Posted by blacknomi
    Quote Originally Posted by MikeNewYork
    Quote Originally Posted by blacknomi
    I'm confused with these prepositions:


    I lie under a stary night.
    I lie underneath the skyline.

    There are caves under the bround.
    There are caves underneath the ground.
    There are caves beneath the ground. (this is wrong)


    Is there any possible rules I can use to explain to students?[/quiote]

    The prepositions "beneath", "underneath", and "under" are synonyms. In most cases, they can be used interchangeably. There are some idioms and pat phrases that do not allow substitutions, however. If there are any differences, they would be mostly with the "unders", IMO. I wouldn't use "under" or "underneath" unless what was I was "under (neath)" was actually over me. I would use "beneath" (or below) for things that are higher than I, but not directly over me. For example, I could walk "beneath" the trees without having tree limbs directly over my head. But I would only use "under" and "underneat" if the tree limbs were actually over my position.

    One can't lie under a night of any kind. It is also not idiomatic to lie under a skyline.

    All three of your cave examples work for me. :wink:

    LeAnn Rimes
    1.Can't fight the moonlight

    *Under a lover's sky
    Gonna be with you
    And no one's gonna be around
    *If you think that you won't fall
    Well just wait untill
    'Til the sun goes down

    Underneath the starlight, starlight
    There's a magical feeling so right
    It will steal your heart tonight

    Thank you, Mike.

    BUT
    In her lyrics, can one lie under a love's sky? It a bit conflicts with what you mentioned.



    sabrina
    All is fair in love and war, and in poetry, too.

    Well...I wish I'll bcome an english Expert when I wake up tomorrow morning.

    I don't really understand the meaning "underneath the startlight". I think under works as well.


    sabrina
    Frankly, so do I. IMO, we can put the lyrics down to poetic license. Mike said it isn't idiomatic to say you are lying under a skyline or night, and I can agree with him on that point. English can be rather funny at times. For instance, we lie or sit in the sun even though we are positioned below it. Getting back to the subject, if you have a Longman Dictionary of Contemporary English, you will see that beneath "under" there is a rather lengthy USAGE NOTE comparing under, underneath, below, and beneath. Of course, it's BE, which I don't always agree with :) :wink: , and I don't think this matter is important enough to worry about. Now, Mike, how can we rephrase the lines in question to make them idiomatically acceptable?

  10. #10
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    Default Re: beneath/underneath

    Quote Originally Posted by Susie Smith
    Frankly, so do I. IMO, we can put the lyrics down to poetic license. Mike said it isn't idiomatic to say you are lying under a skyline or night, and I can agree with him on that point. English can be rather funny at times. For instance, we lie or sit in the sun even though we are positioned below it. Getting back to the subject, if you have a Longman Dictionary of Contemporary English, you will see that beneath "under" there is a rather lengthy USAGE NOTE comparing under, underneath, below, and beneath. Of course, it's BE, which I don't always agree with :) :wink: , and I don't think this matter is important enough to worry about. Now, Mike, how can we rephrase the lines in question to make them idiomatically acceptable?
    Hi, Susie,
    thank you for explanation. I guess I grasp the main idea of those confusing preposition. I checked Longman Dictionary and they give clear definition. I get confused because in my language, we use one word to mean under/underneath/bellow...... anyway thank you sooo much.


    Mike, do you remember when you were a kid, how did you learn these annoying prepositions like under/bellow/beneath/underneath? Maybe you can teach me some tips. :D


    sabrina

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