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  1. #11
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    Default Re: beneath/underneath

    [quote="blacknomi"]
    Quote Originally Posted by MikeNewYork
    Quote Originally Posted by blacknomi
    I'm confused with these prepositions:


    I lie under a stary night.
    I lie underneath the skyline.

    There are caves under the bround.
    There are caves underneath the ground.
    There are caves beneath the ground. (this is wrong)


    Is there any possible rules I can use to explain to students?[/quiote]

    The prepositions "beneath", "underneath", and "under" are synonyms. In most cases, they can be used interchangeably. There are some idioms and pat phrases that do not allow substitutions, however. If there are any differences, they would be mostly with the "unders", IMO. I wouldn't use "under" or "underneath" unless what was I was "under (neath)" was actually over me. I would use "beneath" (or below) for things that are higher than I, but not directly over me. For example, I could walk "beneath" the trees without having tree limbs directly over my head. But I would only use "under" and "underneat" if the tree limbs were actually over my position.

    One can't lie under a night of any kind. It is also not idiomatic to lie under a skyline.

    All three of your cave examples work for me. :wink:

    LeAnn Rimes
    1.Can't fight the moonlight

    *Under a lover's sky
    Gonna be with you
    And no one's gonna be around
    *If you think that you won't fall
    Well just wait untill
    'Til the sun goes down

    Underneath the starlight, starlight
    There's a magical feeling so right
    It will steal your heart tonight

    Thank you, Mike.

    BUT
    In her lyrics, can one lie under a love's sky? It a bit conflicts with what you mentioned.



    sabrina
    Yes, one can lie under a sky. A skyline is a horizontal projection (outline)or silhouette of buildings or the horizon line as it meets the earth. One can not get under either. Night is a time; we can't lie under it either. Nevertheless, in poetry, one can do many strange things. :wink:

  2. #12
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    Default Re: beneath/underneath

    Quote Originally Posted by MikeNewYork
    Yes, one can lie under a sky. A skyline is a horizontal projection (outline)or silhouette of buildings or the horizon line as it meets the earth. One can not get under either. Night is a time; we can't lie under it either. Nevertheless, in poetry, one can do many strange things. :wink:

    Mike,
    Thank you very much. Haven't seen you for a while. What's keeping you?

    Have a nice weekend.


    sabrina

  3. #13
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    Default Re: beneath/underneath

    Quote Originally Posted by blacknomi
    Quote Originally Posted by MikeNewYork
    Yes, one can lie under a sky. A skyline is a horizontal projection (outline)or silhouette of buildings or the horizon line as it meets the earth. One can not get under either. Night is a time; we can't lie under it either. Nevertheless, in poetry, one can do many strange things. :wink:

    Mike,
    Thank you very much. Haven't seen you for a while. What's keeping you?

    Have a nice weekend.


    sabrina
    I try to get here every day. Sometimes work intervenes. :wink:

  4. #14
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    Default Re: beneath/underneath

    Quote Originally Posted by MikeNewYork
    I try to get here every day. Sometimes work intervenes. :wink:
    may i ask what kind of animals are you taking care of?
    I have 3 cute birds. I trained those birds to have a shower everyday, and to choose some lucky numbers for my monthly lotto. But I just can't discipline them not to empty the bowels on my shoulder.


    :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D
    sabrina

  5. #15
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    Default Re: beneath/underneath

    Quote Originally Posted by blacknomi
    Quote Originally Posted by MikeNewYork
    I try to get here every day. Sometimes work intervenes. :wink:
    may i ask what kind of animals are you taking care of?
    I have 3 cute birds. I trained those birds to have a shower everyday, and to choose some lucky numbers for my monthly lotto. But I just can't discipline them not to empty the bowels on my shoulder.


    :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D
    sabrina


    I mostly take care of dogs and cats, but my hospital sees everything that can fit through the door. A month ago, I treated a lion; last week we had two goats and a sheep. Never a dull moment.

  6. #16
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    Default Re: beneath/underneath

    Quote Originally Posted by MikeNewYork
    Quote Originally Posted by blacknomi
    Quote Originally Posted by MikeNewYork
    I try to get here every day. Sometimes work intervenes. :wink:
    may i ask what kind of animals are you taking care of?
    I have 3 cute birds. I trained those birds to have a shower everyday, and to choose some lucky numbers for my monthly lotto. But I just can't discipline them not to empty the bowels on my shoulder.


    :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D
    sabrina


    I mostly take care of dogs and cats, but my hospital sees everything that can fit through the door. A month ago, I treated a lion; last week we had two goats and a sheep. Never a dull moment.

    WOW! COOL! You must be Jeff Corwin and Chomsky's friend.

  7. #17
    MikeNewYork's Avatar
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    Default Re: beneath/underneath

    Quote Originally Posted by Susie Smith
    Frankly, so do I. IMO, we can put the lyrics down to poetic license. Mike said it isn't idiomatic to say you are lying under a skyline or night, and I can agree with him on that point. English can be rather funny at times. For instance, we lie or sit in the sun even though we are positioned below it. Getting back to the subject, if you have a Longman Dictionary of Contemporary English, you will see that beneath "under" there is a rather lengthy USAGE NOTE comparing under, underneath, below, and beneath. Of course, it's BE, which I don't always agree with :) :wink: , and I don't think this matter is important enough to worry about. Now, Mike, how can we rephrase the lines in question to make them idiomatically acceptable?
    I don't really have a problem with thelines in question.

    *Under a lover's sky
    Gonna be with you
    And no one's gonna be around
    *If you think that you won't fall
    Well just wait untill
    'Til the sun goes down

    Underneath the starlight, starlight
    There's a magical feeling so right
    It will steal your heart tonight
    We certainly can be under the sky. "Lover's sky" brings up images of a starry sky, probably with shooting stars abounding.

    Under the starlight is also not much of a stretch. It brings to mind being under a spotlight. :wink:

  8. #18
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    Default Re: beneath/underneath

    Quote Originally Posted by blacknomi


    Mike, do you remember when you were a kid, how did you learn these annoying prepositions like under/bellow/beneath/underneath? Maybe you can teach me some tips. :D


    sabrina
    That is one deficit that NESs have. I really don't remember when or how I began to differentiate them. My guess is it came from running into the usages of other NESs, but not all NESs use words the same way. :?

  9. #19
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    Default Re: beneath/underneath

    Quote Originally Posted by blacknomi
    Quote Originally Posted by MikeNewYork
    Quote Originally Posted by blacknomi
    Quote Originally Posted by MikeNewYork
    I try to get here every day. Sometimes work intervenes. :wink:
    may i ask what kind of animals are you taking care of?
    I have 3 cute birds. I trained those birds to have a shower everyday, and to choose some lucky numbers for my monthly lotto. But I just can't discipline them not to empty the bowels on my shoulder.


    :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D
    sabrina


    I mostly take care of dogs and cats, but my hospital sees everything that can fit through the door. A month ago, I treated a lion; last week we had two goats and a sheep. Never a dull moment.

    WOW! COOL! You must be Jeff Corwin and Chomsky's friend.
    LOL! I am not a big fan of Chomsky, either his linguistic theories or his politics. :x

  10. #20
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    Default Re: beneath/underneath

    Quote Originally Posted by MikeNewYork
    LOL! I am not a big fan of Chomsky, either his linguistic theories or his politics. :x
    Neither am I.
    It was him that made me suffer at school.

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