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  1. #11
    bianca is offline Senior Member
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    Default Re: at/in the place.

    Jamshid, I believe that the curfew is imposed on people (which is implied in the sentence), at a certain place (of a committed delinquency or the like). Or, on a certain place (on atown and so on).

    I'd rather say that spacial view is more suited for 'at a place' (at or around a place - which is wider), whereas point for 'in a place' - (in or within the place) which is more clearly delineated.

    'At the place' here has the meaning of ' at the place of the riots' - there is no 'in the place of ...', I reckon.
    Last edited by bianca; 16-Jun-2007 at 22:24.

  2. #12
    Dr. Jamshid Ibrahim is offline Senior Member
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    Default Re: at/in the place.

    Quote Originally Posted by bianca View Post
    I'd rather say that spacial view is more suited for 'at a place' (at or around a place), whereas point for 'in a place' - (within the place) more clearly delineated.
    Sorry Bianca, let me take a different example:
    We meet at the coffeeshop. Sees the place as a meeting point
    We meet in the coffeeshop. Sees it as a room (four dimensions)
    in: is dimensional ie spatial. Dimensions can be seen metaphorically as I live in a city.

    That's why we say at the airport or maybe even the ampersand (the commercial at) sign @ suggests a point you meet people at. Go back to my previous post I edited it a bit.
    Last edited by Dr. Jamshid Ibrahim; 16-Jun-2007 at 19:42.

  3. #13
    bianca is offline Senior Member
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    Default Re: at/in the place.

    I disagree.

  4. #14
    Dr. Jamshid Ibrahim is offline Senior Member
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    Default Re: at/in the place.

    Quote Originally Posted by bianca View Post
    I disagree.
    OK maybe you agree with me: A point is a target and pointing or targetting can be aggressive. Have a look:

    She shouted at me. (aggressive)
    She shouted to me. (maybe friendly)

    He threw the ball at me (aggreswsive)
    He threw the ball to me (frienldy)

    She drove at me. (aggressive)
    She drove with me. (I was happy)

    No wonder all aggressive verbs go with at.
    Jamshid

  5. #15
    Anglika is offline No Longer With Us
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    Default Re: at/in the place.

    Going back to Gary's original question, either could be used, depending on full context and grammar usage.

    The police have taken strong measures in Oxford against thoughtless cyclists.

    There have been strong measures taken at Oxford to make sure cyclists obey the law.


    In his particular example, my vote would go to "in"

  6. #16
    bianca is offline Senior Member
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    Default Re: at/in the place.

    I believe that Oxford ( a city) versus 'the place of crime' are two different things. One says in Oxford, but at the place of crime. I wonder if the latter doesn't match the original sentence better (the place of the riots). Besides, if we are to speak of a city, or town, then to my knowledge the curfew is imposed on the city/town, not in it.
    But of course, I may be wrong...
    Last edited by bianca; 17-Jun-2007 at 11:17.

  7. #17
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    Default Re: at/in the place.

    Additionally, when it comes to in and at and places, the semantics can be broken down as follows:

    [1] inside a location
    imposed curfew...
    • in Fatehpur neighborhood
    • in Nimba
    • in the valley
    • in Kirtipur city
    • in the town of...

    [2] a location, neither inside nor outside. Just a point in space.
    imposed curfew...
    • at [these locations] Bootan Mandi, Model House, Bhargo Camp, ...
    • at the venue
    • at Lac Residents of #3b District in Grand Bassa County
    [3] at + time
    imposed curfew...
    • at 8 p.m.
    • at night
    • at sunset
    • at dawn
    • at this time

    So, given the function and distribution we just saw, that curfews can be described as imposed inside a location, at a point in space, and at a point in time, the following hold true:

    Ex: The police officials imposed curfew in(side) the place where riots took place.

    Ex: The police officials imposed curfew at the place where riots took place.

    Determining which preposition is best, in or at, depends on several factors.
    i. Does the writer feel the verb phrase impose curfew takes in for locations and at for time? If so, then in would be the correct choice above.

    ii. Does the writer feel the verb phrase impose curfew is compatible with both prepositions, in for inside and at for a point in space? If so, then both would work as the correct choice above. Their semantics, however, would be slightly different.

    iii. Does the writer believe the preposition in modifies a specific noun, whereas at modifies a non-specific noun; e.g., in the town of... ; at the place where? If so, then at would be the correct choice above.

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