Page 1 of 2 1 2 LastLast
Results 1 to 10 of 15
  1. #1
    albertino is offline Senior Member
    • Member Info
      • Member Type:
      • Other
      • Native Language:
      • Chinese
      • Home Country:
      • Hong Kong
      • Current Location:
      • Hong Kong
    Join Date
    May 2007
    Posts
    845
    Post Thanks / Like

    Default a Kindergarten, the kindergarten, kindergartens?

    Since a +count noun, the + singular count noun, plural count nouns can be used for generalisation, what is the suitable aritcle to be used in the following context:

    Context:

    DocumentTitle : Procedures on Voucher Redemption by a/the kindergarten/kindergratens(?)

    Body
    ...... If a/the kindergarten/kindergartens(?) can confirm the number of staff to be employed and hope(s) that a/the voucher/vouchers(?) can be disbursed in early December 2008, it/they should submit its/their plan(s) by XXXXXX. ......

  2. #2
    Anglika is offline No Longer With Us
    Join Date
    Oct 2006
    Posts
    19,448
    Post Thanks / Like

    Default Re: a Kindergarten, the kindergarten, kindergartens?

    Quote Originally Posted by albertino View Post
    Since a +count noun, the + singular count noun, plural count nouns can be used for generalisation, what is the suitable aritcle to be used in the following context:

    Context:

    DocumentTitle : Procedures on Voucher Redemption by a/the kindergarten/Kindergartens(?)

    Body
    ...... If a/the kindergarten/kindergartens(?) can confirm the number of staff to be employed and hope(s) that a/the voucher/vouchers(?) can be disbursed in early December 2008, it/they should submit its/their plan(s) [application] by XXXXXX. ......

  3. #3
    albertino is offline Senior Member
    • Member Info
      • Member Type:
      • Other
      • Native Language:
      • Chinese
      • Home Country:
      • Hong Kong
      • Current Location:
      • Hong Kong
    Join Date
    May 2007
    Posts
    845
    Post Thanks / Like

    Default Re: a Kindergarten, the kindergarten, kindergartens?

    Quote Originally Posted by Anglika View Post
    I was wondering why a/the kindergarten could not be used in the place of "kindergartens(as in the title of my example)". What makes the difference, then?

    Since according to my understanding, "a(n) tiger= a kind of or an example of the tiger; the tiger= one (imaginary) member of the class to represent the whole class; tigers=all tigers". All of them seem to be applicable in my example.

  4. #4
    Join Date
    Sep 2003
    Posts
    12,970
    Post Thanks / Like

    Default Re: a Kindergarten, the kindergarten, kindergartens?

    Possible Document Titles

    1. Procedures on Voucher Redemption by kindergartens (in general).

    2. Procedures on Voucher Redemption by the kindergartens (a specific, known group of kindergartens).

    3. Procedures on Voucher Redemption by a kindergarten. (one specific, known kindergarten).

    Choose a title first, and then we can work on the articles in the body.

    All the best

  5. #5
    albertino is offline Senior Member
    • Member Info
      • Member Type:
      • Other
      • Native Language:
      • Chinese
      • Home Country:
      • Hong Kong
      • Current Location:
      • Hong Kong
    Join Date
    May 2007
    Posts
    845
    Post Thanks / Like

    Default Re: a Kindergarten, the kindergarten, kindergartens?

    Quote Originally Posted by Casiopea View Post
    Possible Document Titles

    1. Procedures on Voucher Redemption by kindergartens (in general).

    2. Procedures on Voucher Redemption by the kindergartens (a specific, known group of kindergartens).

    3. Procedures on Voucher Redemption by a kindergarten. (one specific, known kindergarten).

    Choose a title first, and then we can work on the articles in the body.

    All the best
    Thank you. Mr/Ms Casiopea.

    Well, The first and second explanations are sound and clear. However, may I ask whether the third one would be "indefinite and unknown" rather than "specific and known" in using "a (because I mean "any" here) kindergarten"? Is it the same by using "a kindergarten (to represent all kindergartens)" instead of "kindergartens" to convey a general sense ?

    What will be the result in the body if I opt the first one as a title?
    Thanks a lot.

  6. #6
    Join Date
    Sep 2003
    Posts
    12,970
    Post Thanks / Like

    Default Re: a Kindergarten, the kindergarten, kindergartens?

    albertino, first, what does by mean here?
    Procedures on Voucher Redemption by kindergartens.
    Shouldn't it be for? Otherwise, it reads, procedures written by kindergartens. (By the way, what is the voucher for?) Second, do the kindergartens have to submit more than one voucher? If not, and working from this title 1) kindergartens, then

    If the kindergarten can confirm the number of staff and ensure that the voucher will be disbursed in early December 2008, they should submit their plans by ... .
    Quote Originally Posted by albertino
    ...may I ask whether the third one would be "indefinite and unknown" rather than "specific and known" in using "a (because I mean "any" here) kindergarten"?
    Yes and no. It means, for any given kindergarten that has a voucher, but the title procedures on voucher redemption refers to a specific group, namely all kindergartens that have a voucher, and that is why that plural noun works best.

    Does that help?

  7. #7
    albertino is offline Senior Member
    • Member Info
      • Member Type:
      • Other
      • Native Language:
      • Chinese
      • Home Country:
      • Hong Kong
      • Current Location:
      • Hong Kong
    Join Date
    May 2007
    Posts
    845
    Post Thanks / Like

    Default Re: a Kindergarten, the kindergarten, kindergartens?

    Quote Originally Posted by Casiopea View Post
    albertino, first, what does by mean here?
    Procedures on Voucher Redemption by kindergartens.
    Shouldn't it be for? Otherwise, it reads, procedures written by kindergartens. (By the way, what is the voucher for?) Second, do the kindergartens have to submit more than one voucher? If not, and working from this title 1) kindergartens, then

    If the kindergarten can confirm the number of staff and ensure that the voucher will be disbursed in early December 2008, they should submit their plans by ... .
    Yes and no. It means, for any given kindergarten that has a voucher, but the title procedures on voucher redemption refers to a specific group, namely all kindergartens that have a voucher, and that is why that plural noun works best.

    Does that help?
    In Hong Kong,Voucer redemption" means that eligible pupils attending kindergartens will be issued a Certificate of Eligibility for getting fee subsidy from local Education Authorities. After collection of the vouchers, the kindergartens will in turn redeem them from the Authorities for cash payments.

    Hence, "Procedures on Voucher Redemption by kindergartens" means the procedures with which vouchers will be redeemed by kindergartens."

  8. #8
    Join Date
    Sep 2003
    Posts
    12,970
    Post Thanks / Like

    Default Re: a Kindergarten, the kindergarten, kindergartens?

    I see. Thanks. It looks good, by kindergartens.

  9. #9
    albertino is offline Senior Member
    • Member Info
      • Member Type:
      • Other
      • Native Language:
      • Chinese
      • Home Country:
      • Hong Kong
      • Current Location:
      • Hong Kong
    Join Date
    May 2007
    Posts
    845
    Post Thanks / Like

    Default Re: a Kindergarten, the kindergarten, kindergartens?

    Quote Originally Posted by Casiopea View Post
    I see. Thanks. It looks good, by kindergartens.
    You're welcome.

    However, as far as I know, both "a(n)' and "the" can be used as generic in addition to specific.

    For example,

    The lion is roaring. (specific)
    The lion is the king of beasts.(generic)(=a class of animals)

    A lion has escaped from the zoo.(specific, a certain lion)
    A lion can be dangerous. (generic, means any lion)

    So, in the following example, are "the kindergarten" and "the voucher" used as generic for the reasons stated above? And in this case, should the pronoun "they" (for the kindergarten") be used rather than "it" ?
    If the kindergarten can confirm the number of staff and ensure that the voucher will be disbursed in early December 2008, they should submit their plans by ... .

    Many thanks, indeed.

  10. #10
    Join Date
    Sep 2003
    Posts
    12,970
    Post Thanks / Like

    Default Re: a Kindergarten, the kindergarten, kindergartens?

    Quote Originally Posted by albertino[/quote
    So, in the following example, are "the kindergarten" and "the voucher" used as generic for the reasons stated above?
    Generic as in; e.g., the group kindergarten, the group voucher? No. In our example, the nouns kindergarten and voucher are individuated. Their referents are known to the person reading the procedures document. Those terms were made clear to the reader prior to their mention here, right?:
    If (the/a) kindergarten(s) can confirm the number of staff and ensure that (the/a) voucher(s) ...
    Quote Originally Posted by albertina
    And in this case, should the pronoun "they" (for the kindergarten") be used rather than "it"?
    That they is plural and its referent the kindergarten singular isn't a violation of the grammar. They has a human referent, it does not. The semantics are similar to e.g., the police, they; the committee, they.

    Does that help?

Page 1 of 2 1 2 LastLast

Similar Threads

  1. Teaching kindergarten
    By teacherellaG in forum Ask a Teacher
    Replies: 1
    Last Post: 26-Apr-2007, 07:02
  2. Kindergarten
    By Seagull in forum Ask a Teacher
    Replies: 4
    Last Post: 17-Apr-2007, 13:10
  3. Kindergarten reading
    By shel in forum Ask a Teacher
    Replies: 1
    Last Post: 07-Apr-2006, 05:01
  4. Please help me find ESL kindergarten lesson plans
    By erwin64 in forum Ask a Teacher
    Replies: 3
    Last Post: 06-Jun-2005, 15:09

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •