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Thread: To tdol

  1. #21
    Taka is offline Senior Member
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    Re: To tdol

    Thank you for the clear example again, Mike.

    (case a: ",conj (b)" included)
    There is deep suspicion that government is the natural enemy of freedom, even if it is elected by the people.

    The truth is that a person of seventy is a totally different person than a person of twenty ,and a comparison or their intellect is impractical.


    (case b: ",conj (b)" excluded)
    I have a deep suspicion that government is the natural enemy of freedom, even if others disagree with me.

    The truth is that I was home alone on Saturday night, and I hope you believe that.


    Now, which case is more common, "case a" or "case b"?

    When I asked tdol:
    Quote Originally Posted by Taka
    Is it possible to generalize that if there is a "....that (a), conj (b)" construction, conj (b) is always included in the "that-clause"? Or, do you think it depends on the content?
    then he said:
    Quote Originally Posted by tdol
    Off-hand, I'd probably say we could,
    So I thought "case a" was more usual. But it seems like you are saying that "case a" and "case b" would equally appear in English, depending on the content.

  2. #22
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    Re: To tdol

    Included
    There is deep suspicion that government, even if it is elected by the people, is the natural enemy of freedom.

    All the best, :D

  3. #23
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    Re: To tdol

    Quote Originally Posted by Taka
    Thank you for the clear example again, Mike.

    (case a: ",conj (b)" included)
    There is deep suspicion that government is the natural enemy of freedom, even if it is elected by the people.

    The truth is that a person of seventy is a totally different person than a person of twenty ,and a comparison or their intellect is impractical.


    (case b: ",conj (b)" excluded)
    I have a deep suspicion that government is the natural enemy of freedom, even if others disagree with me.

    The truth is that I was home alone on Saturday night, and I hope you believe that.


    Now, which case is more common, "case a" or "case b"?

    When I asked tdol:
    Quote Originally Posted by Taka
    Is it possible to generalize that if there is a "....that (a), conj (b)" construction, conj (b) is always included in the "that-clause"? Or, do you think it depends on the content?
    then he said:
    Quote Originally Posted by tdol
    Off-hand, I'd probably say we could,
    So I thought "case a" was more usual. But it seems like you are saying that "case a" and "case b" would equally appear in English, depending on the content.
    I don't think I can give you statistics on frequency. My guess is that the "included" form is more common, simply because one would have a tendency to end the thought when one reaches the end of the noun clause -- wherever that end occurs. :wink:

  4. #24
    Taka is offline Senior Member
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    Re: To tdol

    Quote Originally Posted by MikeNewYork
    I don't think I can give you statistics on frequency. My guess is that the "included" form is more common, simply because one would have a tendency to end the thought when one reaches the end of the noun clause -- wherever that end occurs.
    I learned here in Japan that a comma is usually put to end the thought and to start new thought. Is it not necessary true?

  5. #25
    Tdol is offline Editor, UsingEnglish.com
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    It could be true, but there will be plenty of cases where it is not true.

  6. #26
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    Re: To tdol

    Quote Originally Posted by Taka
    Quote Originally Posted by MikeNewYork
    I don't think I can give you statistics on frequency. My guess is that the "included" form is more common, simply because one would have a tendency to end the thought when one reaches the end of the noun clause -- wherever that end occurs.
    I learned here in Japan that a comma is usually put to end the thought and to start new thought. Is it not necessary true?
    Commas are used for many things. Sometimes, they indicate a natural or obligatory pause. At other times, they are there for purely grammatical reasons. One could say that a compound sentence (with two independent clauses) is two thoughts, but one could also see it as one thought with two pieces.

  7. #27
    Taka is offline Senior Member
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    Re: To tdol

    Quote Originally Posted by tdol
    It could be true, but there will be plenty of cases where it is not true.
    Quote Originally Posted by MikeNewYork
    Commas are used for many things. Sometimes, they indicate a natural or obligatory pause. At other times, they are there for purely grammatical reasons. One could say that a compound sentence (with two independent clauses) is two thoughts, but one could also see it as one thought with two pieces.
    OK. I understand.

    Thank you, teachears! I really enjoy learning English here!

  8. #28
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    Re: To tdol

    Quote Originally Posted by Taka
    Quote Originally Posted by tdol
    It could be true, but there will be plenty of cases where it is not true.
    Quote Originally Posted by MikeNewYork
    Commas are used for many things. Sometimes, they indicate a natural or obligatory pause. At other times, they are there for purely grammatical reasons. One could say that a compound sentence (with two independent clauses) is two thoughts, but one could also see it as one thought with two pieces.
    OK. I understand.

    Thank you, teachears! I really enjoy learning English here!
    Not half as much as we enjoy your questions. :D

  9. #29
    Tdol is offline Editor, UsingEnglish.com
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    You do ask very interesting questions. Thanks.

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