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Thread: next, after

  1. #21
    justinwschang is offline Member
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    Default Re: next, after

    Quote Originally Posted by engee30 View Post
    I know I shouldn't be doing this (since I am neither a native speaker of English nor a teacher of English), but you seem to be getting the things wrong.

    I've never heard of a predicate adverb, I'm afraid. All I know about the verb be is as follows:

    be [linking (copular) verb]
    My boss is always late. - the predicate adjective (late) modifying the subject (my boss)

    be [intransitive verb taking an adverbial]
    The leaves are everywhere. - everywhere doesn't modify the subject (the leaves) since it is an adverb here, and it's only adverbs, as far as I know, that can modify verbs, not adjectives

    The point is that there are two different verbs of be, and you mixed them up, I guess.
    No, I don't mind at all. In fact, it's good to have differing views, otherwise I remain blind to my mistakes. It's also a challenge to refine my knowledge, so I'm glad you came back (imagine if everyone just ignored everything you write). However, in this case, IMHO, I don't agree with you.

    The verb BE is always a linking verb, and as such it is neither transitive nor intransitive. I am a student (student is the predicate noun of "am" and not called the object).

    The leaves are everywhere: You are right to say that everywhere does not modify leaves, so it's not an adjective but an adverb. Again: He is there (there = adverb).


    BTW, I'm not an English teacher either, though I study grammar because it refines your understanding of the language. There are many areas where the experts and authorities (of which we are not) differ among themselves, and the language is ever evolving, and these expert differences are quite funny sometimes. My main focus is PRACTICAL rather than THEORETICAL understanding of English, and making it easier for students.
    I'm trained as a (bloody, sorry) accountant, sold fruits by the roadside (manual worker) when I was younger, and later became a Suit (a CFO, who doesn't wear ties), and now live in Beijing. Please disagree as much as you think where I'm wrong

  2. #22
    justinwschang is offline Member
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    Default Re: next, after

    engee, some more:

    It (the place) was there where I slept (adjective)
    Darth Vader there will vaporise you (adjective)
    He was there (adverb)

    It (the time) was very late (adjective)
    He was late (adverb)


  3. #23
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    Wink Re: next, after

    Quote Originally Posted by justinwschang View Post
    ... However, in this case, IMHO, I don't agree with you.

    The verb BE is always a linking verb, and as such it is neither transitive nor intransitive. I am a student (student is the predicate noun of "am" and not called the object).

    The leaves are everywhere: You are right to say that everywhere does not modify leaves, so it's not an adjective but an adverb. Again: He is there (there = adverb).

    ...
    All I've been trying to say so far is that there is nothing like a predicate adverb.
    Hence, you can't say that the verb be is always a linking verb only. As I wrote before, there's a significant distinction between the two different be's.

    Have a look at the following:

    late [as adverb]
    We talked late into the night.
    In this case, late is an adverb, modifying the verb talk

    late [as adjective]
    He was late again.
    In this case, however, late can't be an adverb, since it modifies the pronoun subject he (as the predicative adjective, not adverb)

    The same goes for next.
    next [as adverb]
    I can't think now what happened next.

    next [as adjective]
    I'm next.

    When the verb be is a linking verb, then it's always a predicate adjective that is used.
    When the verb be is a non-linking verb, then it's an adverbial that is used instead.

    One more thing to consider:

    She was home. - if you wanted to treat home as a predicate (and the verb be as a linking verb), then it would have to modify the pronoun subject she, which would mean that she was a thing or place called home!
    Treat home as an adverbial, and the verb be as a non-linking verb in such cases. If not, you may get things mixed up like that.
    Last edited by engee30; 16-Sep-2007 at 20:41.

  4. #24
    justinwschang is offline Member
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    Default Re: next, after

    Quote Originally Posted by engee30 View Post
    All I've been trying to say so far is that there is nothing like a predicate adverb.
    Hence, you can't say that the verb be is always a linking verb only. As I wrote before, there's a significant distinction between the two different be's.

    Have a look at the following:

    late [as adverb]
    We talked late into the night.
    In this case, late is an adverb, modifying the verb talk Agree

    late [as adjective]
    He was late again.
    In this case, however, late can't be an adverb, since it modifies the pronoun subject he (as the predicative adjective, not adverb) Disagree, it does not modify the subject (so it's not an adjective); but it modifies the verb (so it's an adverb), and the verb (was) links the subject (he) to the adverb (late), that's why it's called a linking verb. Compare: He was happy (adjective) with He was late (adverb); in both cases "was" links the subject to the predicate adjective or predicate adverb.
    Again: The leaves are everywhere (everywhere is always an adverb, never an adjective). I know that you are saying that in this case the verb BE (are) is not a linking verb. My point is: When is it not a linking verb? As far as I know, BE is always a linking verb, connecting or linking its subject to its complement (predicate word, which can be a noun, pronoun, adjective or adverb).

    The same goes for next.
    next [as adverb]
    I can't think now what happened next.

    next [as adjective]
    I'm next.

    When the verb be is a linking verb, then it's always a predicate adjective that is used.
    When the verb be is a non-linking verb, then it's an adverbial that is used instead. When is BE not a linking verb? And why is it that only when its complement is an adverb (like "everwhere") that it becomes a so-called non-linking verb? The fact that it is described as "linking" rather than "modifying" allows adverbs (which do not modify nouns/subjects) to be the complement of BE.
    One more thing to consider:

    She was home. - if you wanted to treat home as a predicate (and the verb be as a linking verb), then it would have to modify the pronoun subject she, [No, it doesn't have to modify the subject; instead it only links the subject to its complement (predicate, which in this case consists of the adverb)] which would mean that she was a thing or place called home!
    Treat home as an adverbial, and the verb be as a non-linking verb in such cases. If not, you may get things mixed up like that.
    My point is that BE is always a linking verb. Linking is not the same as modifying or qualifying.

  5. #25
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    Cool Re: next, after

    Quote Originally Posted by justinwschang View Post
    ...

    It (the time) was very late (adjective)
    He was late (adverb)

    The other way round, I would say.

    We got back home at midnight. It (the time) was late. (adverb)
    We got back home by bus. It (the bus) was late. (adjective)

  6. #26
    justinwschang is offline Member
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    Default Re: next, after

    Quote Originally Posted by engee30 View Post
    The other way round, I would say.

    We got back home at midnight. It (the time) was late. (adverb)
    We got back home by bus. It (the bus) was late. (adjective)
    "Late" can modify time (so adjective) but "late" cannot modify a person (so adverb) unless it means he's dead (the late Darth Vader).

    Semantically (meaning-wise), what's the difference between:
    He was late, versus
    The leaves are everywhere
    Going by your view, "everywhere" modifies "leaves", in exactly the same way as "late" modifies "he", so both are adjectives (which "everywhere" definitely is not). If you say "everwhere" doesn't modify "leaves" but "late" modifies "he", what's the reason or the difference? Is there a difference in semantics? No.
    We cannot explain away the non-existence of any difference in meaning between the two by simply calling "everywhere" an adverbial and treating "are" as so-called non-linking.

  7. #27
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    Smile Re: next, after

    You will never see an adverb in the predicate that modifies the subject linked to the predicate through a linking verb!
    Check this out:
    Click image for larger version. 

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  8. #28
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    Post Re: next, after

    Just to sum up my point of view, it's adjectives or noun phrases that are used after linking verbs; if one says that it is an adverb or adverbial that is used, they should remember that the verb is not a linking verb then.

    I am a student.
    I am shy.
    I am a shy student.
    I was late when I got there. (speaking of myself, but not as a dead person)


    I am at school now.
    I have been everywhere in the world.
    It was late when I got there. (speaking of the time of my arrival there)


  9. #29
    LwyrFirat is offline Member
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    Default Re: next, after

    Guys, I will copy-paste this thread and make it a grammer book. Thanks easy money

  10. #30
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    Smile Re: next, after

    Quote Originally Posted by LwyrFirat View Post
    Guys, I will copy-paste this thread and make it a grammer book. Thanks easy money
    So I reckon you would like to copy-paste the following as well:

    LINKING OR COPULATIVE VERBS. The Columbia Guide to Standard American English. 1993

    LINKING OR COPULATIVE VERBS are the special and relatively few verbs that tie a subject to a predicate complement—either a predicate nominative (Mary is my sister) or a predicate adjective (Mary seems bright). (Historically, adverbs used to appear regularly after linking verbs too.) Be, seem, and become are linking verbs, or copula, in almost all uses; come, feel, get, go, grow, lie, look, prove, remain, sound, stay, and turn can serve as linking verbs (I grew weary), transitive verbs (I grew roses), or intransitive verbs (I grew slowly).

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