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    #11

    Re: Would Someone Please Help and Disect This?

    It was already established that the subject was the collapse of the building prior to him making that statement.

    What bothers me is that no one is taking this apart.

    I looked up infinitive verb and was not able to find a reference that I can apply to what you said so I am at a bit of a disadvantage here.

    Why do you find it necessary to quote "someone elses" believe in what it means instead of simply ripping it apart?

    So you are also saying that pull it cannot be used in the context of destroy?

    I am not able to yet add this up with the information given to me.

    Soi it is subject to interpretation? Can you describe how? Is it not used in reference to an object of some kind?

    .

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    #12

    Re: Would Someone Please Help and Disect This?

    Let's look at the passage you're working from, the one you submitted in post #1:
    "I remember getting a call from the Fire Department commander, telling me they were not sure they were gonna be able to contain the fire, and I said, you know, 'We've had such terrible loss of life, maybe the smartest thing to do is just pull it.' And they made that decision to pull and then we watched the building collapse."
    The fire couldn't be contained, they knew that, so the smart thing to do was to pull (the plug on) the operation and get the firefighters out before any more lives were lost.

    Quote Originally Posted by kokomoj0
    So you are also saying that pull it cannot be used in the context of destroy?
    Uhm, yes. Think about this for a moment. Have you considered the height of the building, the tower? How were they going to pull down the World Trade Center, with dynomite? with a crane? with a rope? It just doesn't make sense. They didn't have enough time to figure out how to pull the tower down, let alone get all the necessary equipment to do the job. So, if they did indeed pull it down as you assume, then how did they do it and with what?

    Pragmatics.


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    #13

    Re: Would Someone Please Help and Disect This?

    Quote Originally Posted by kokomoj0 View Post
    It was already established that the subject was the collapse of the building prior to him making that statement.

    What bothers me is that no one is taking this apart.

    I looked up infinitive verb and was not able to find a reference that I can apply to what you said so I am at a bit of a disadvantage here.

    Why do you find it necessary to quote "someone elses" believe in what it means instead of simply ripping it apart?

    So you are also saying that pull it cannot be used in the context of destroy?

    I am not able to yet add this up with the information given to me.

    Soi it is subject to interpretation? Can you describe how? Is it not used in reference to an object of some kind?

    .
    It is referenced to an object....the operation of fighting the fire.

    You cannot seem to accept this.

    The use of "pull it" is not particularly good English...it is more common speech, street slang. The fact that there is even a document displayed by Soup that explains what was meant by the use of this phrase means that it could be misunderstood by some people.

    You are trying to dissect conversational English which is usually grammatically incorrect by writing standards.

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    #14

    Re: Would Someone Please Help and Disect This?

    Quote Originally Posted by Naamplao View Post

    The use of "pull it" is not particularly good English...it is more common speech, street slang. The fact that there is even a document displayed by Soup that explains what was meant by the use of this phrase means that it could be misunderstood by some people.
    Actually, the site WTC 7 - Silverstein's 'Pull It' Explanation Examined contends that "pull it" was a demolition order; that they did intend to blow up the building, and did, and there was a cover up of some sort.

    Interesting bit of language.


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    #15

    Unhappy Re: Would Someone Please Help and Disect This?

    The problem here is that you are trying to analyse a quote which you are referencing as being point-of-fact (without considering conspiracy theories). Again, there isn't enough evidence to deduce what this person meant by "it" and like most people here we can only go by logic and assume that "it" was not an object but their "strategy".

    It's unclear whether you are trying to discuss semantics in this context or trying to prove your friend wrong by any means. In any case, like I have already stated there isn't enough evidence to suggest the "it" was in reference to the building. We can only deduce by logic that the people would have been pulled out of the building regardless on anyones intervention therefore "people" are ruled out, but so is the building because it just doesn't make sense to take down a building to stop a fire and it's quite unheard of. We can therefore assume they meant "pull out".

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    #16

    Re: Would Someone Please Help and Disect This?

    Quote Originally Posted by docholiday View Post
    The problem here is that you are trying to analyse a quote which you are referencing as being point-of-fact. Again, there isn't enough evidence to deduce what this person meant by "it" and like most people here we can only go by logic and assume that "it" was not an object but their "strategy".
    Ah, yes, but according to WTC 7 - Silverstein's 'Pull It' Explanation Examined,
    Mr. Silverstein was recounting these events for a television documentary he stated, “I said, you know, we've had such terrible loss of life. Maybe the smartest thing to do is to pull it.” Mr. McQuillan has stated that by “it,” Mr. Silverstein meant the contingent of firefighters remaining in the building
    There is a problem with the above statement, namely there were no firefighters in WTC7 (World Trade Center 7):


    • "No manual firefighting actions were taken by FDNY." [Fema Report]
    • "There was no firefighting in WTC 7." [Popular Mechanics]
    • "By 11:30 a.m., the fire commander in charge of that area, Assistant Chief Frank Fellini, ordered firefighters away from [WTC 7] for safety reasons." [New York Times]

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    #17

    Re: Would Someone Please Help and Disect This?

    Sorry. I get your meaning now. And you're right, and the word "And" is part of the linguistic flag here:
    pull it = demolish the building

    "I remember getting a call from the Fire Department commander, telling me they were not sure they were gonna be able to contain the fire, and I said, you know, 'We've had such terrible loss of life, maybe the smartest thing to do is just pull it (to demolish the building).' And they made that decision to pull (to demolish) and then we watched the building collapse."

    Linguistic evidence
    If we assume that pull it means to pull (the plug on) the operation, to stop the operation, then the second pull doesn't fit grammatically, because it would have to carry the same meaning. It'd have to be "....they made the decision to pull out ...", a different verb altogether.

    The problem here, or rather the apparent problem, is the phrase pull it. It's ambiguous, that is, it has two potential meanings:

    1) to end an operation, to pull out of an operation
    2) to demolish a building

    If the idiom pull it means to pull out of an operation, then its base verb form to pull should follow semantically. That is, in order to keep the same meaning, which is evident by the speaker's use of the conjunction "And" which connects the two sentences, to pull would have to be to pull out.

    In short, you are correct. Good eye! Pull in pull it and to pull means to demolish, not to pull out. To pull is short for pull it.
    Last edited by Soup; 29-Sep-2007 at 22:53.


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    #18

    Re: Would Someone Please Help and Disect This?

    I want to thank everyone who contributed to this thread. There was a beer on it and I will keep you all in mind as I sip the frothy brew! <grins>

    Thanks again!

    kj


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    #19

    Re: Would Someone Please Help and Disect This?

    Quote Originally Posted by Soup View Post
    Actually, the site WTC 7 - Silverstein's 'Pull It' Explanation Examined contends that "pull it" was a demolition order; that they did intend to blow up the building, and did, and there was a cover up of some sort.

    Interesting bit of language.
    You are taking the complete text...I am looking at only the text presented by kokomoj0. I have no idea what was said before.

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