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  1. #1
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    Default related/relevant V.S. relation/relationship

    Dear teachers,

    This is a rather heavy subject. I just can't get my head around.
    Would you kindly point out which is the correct form and offer further explanation if there is any subtle difference between each lexical usage.


    Here you are,
    (a)
    The actual cost bears close relation to what we expected.
    The actual cost is closely related to what we expected.
    The actual cost bears is closely relevant to what we expected.
    There is a close relationship between the actual cost and what we expected.


    (b)
    The theory bears little relevance to practice.
    The theory bears little relation to practice.


    (c)
    For more relevant topics, please go to UsingEnglis.com.
    For more related topics, please go to UsingEnglis.com.


    (d)
    Is umemployment causually related to crime?
    Is umemployment causually relevant to crime?


    (e)
    After this incidence, we broke off diplomatic relations with their country.
    After this incidence, we broke off diplomatic relationships with their country.


    (f)
    The relation between landlorad and tenant remains a myth.
    The relationship between landlorad and tenant remains a myth.


    (g)
    What does "relations" in this phrase of "friends and relations"?


    (h)
    What's their relation?
    What's their relationship?

  2. #2
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    Default Re: related/relevant V.S. relation/relationship

    related (adj.) implies a comparison
    relation (n.) implies a comparison or relationship
    relevant (adj.) implies importance
    relationship (n.) implies an association between people/organizations

    :D

  3. #3
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    Thank you, Dear Cas.

    But still :( :?

  4. #4
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    Default Re: related/relevant V.S. relation/relationship

    Quote Originally Posted by blacknomi
    Dear teachers,

    This is a rather heavy subject. I just can't get my head around.
    Would you kindly point out which is the correct form and offer further explanation if there is any subtle difference between each lexical usage.


    Here you are,
    (a)
    The actual cost bears close relation to what we expected.
    The actual cost is closely related to what we expected.
    The actual cost bears is closely relevant to what we expected.
    There is a close relationship between the actual cost and what we expected.
    The third one is clearly wrong. A cost cannot be relevant to the expected cost. And "bears is closely relevant" has no meaning.

    The other three are grammatical, but none of them are very good. The actual cost was close to the expected/estimated cost. This is actually what the person is trying to say.


    (b)
    The theory bears little relevance to practice.
    The theory bears little relation to practice.
    Both of these are used, along with "bears little relationship". The classic phrase is "bears little resemblance".

    (c)
    For more relevant topics, please go to UsingEnglis.com.
    For more related topics, please go to UsingEnglis.com.
    These are both fine, but they can have different meanings. The first sends you to find topics that are more relevant to the issue than the other topics or to find additinal relevant topics. The second sends you only for additional topics that are also related.

    (d)
    Is umemployment causually related to crime?
    Is umemployment causually relevant to crime?
    I think you want "causally", related to "causing" -- not casually, related to being casual.

    I would only use the first. To be causally related means to have something to do with the cause. "Causally relevant" doesn't have much meaning for me.


    (e)
    After this incidence, we broke off diplomatic relations with their country.
    After this incidence, we broke off diplomatic relationships with their country.
    In this case, "relations" is the only possible choice. It is the standard way to describe diplomacy.

    (f)
    The relation between landlorad and tenant remains a myth.
    The relationship between landlorad and tenant remains a myth.
    In this case, one would use "relationship".

    (g)
    What does "relations" in this phrase of "friends and relations"?
    That means "people who are related to the speaker".

    (h)
    What's their relation?
    What's their relationship?
    Again, use "relationship" there.

    The words "relation" and "relationship" have some overlap, but they are not always interchangeable. Read the definitions carefully. If you have other questions, let me know. :wink:

  5. #5
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    Dear Mike,

    Thank you very much indeed, as always. I'll get this done by today and I'm afraid I have to bother you again.

    Could you kindly offer a few sample tests for I can fill in the blanks to see if I get it?


    Good night there.

  6. #6
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    Default Re: related/relevant V.S. relation/relationship

    Quote Originally Posted by MikeNewYork
    Quote Originally Posted by blacknomi
    Here you are,
    (a)
    The actual cost bears close relation to what we expected.
    The actual cost is closely related to what we expected.
    The actual cost bears is closely relevant to what we expected.
    There is a close relationship between the actual cost and what we expected.
    The third one is clearly wrong. A cost cannot be relevant to the expected cost. And "bears is closely relevant" has no meaning.
    The other three are grammatical, but none of them are very good. The actual cost was close to the expected/estimated cost. This is actually what the person is trying to say.
    The actual cost bears close relation to what we expected to be. (Is it better?)
    --The sales performance is related to employee's working attitude.
    --The sales performance is relevant to employee's working attitude.
    --There's a close relation between sales performance and employee's working attitude. ( I used 'relation' instead of 'relationship' in this case because I think the former is dealt with more abstract idea such as performance and attitude, whereas relationship is used in a more human relation way, is that right?)

    Besides, I think it's not proper to say "The sales performance is close to employee's working attitude."

    That's all by now. My class starts within 1 minute. Have to split now. More later.

  7. #7
    RonBee's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by blacknomi
    Dear Mike,

    Thank you very much indeed, as always. I'll get this done by today and I'm afraid I have to bother you again.

    Could you kindly offer a few sample tests for I can fill in the blanks to see if I get it?


    Good night there.
    Um, may I interrupt? You can't use by with today. (True, you did do that.) We only use by with a future time, which is why we don't use by with today. You could, for example, say:
    • I'll do that by five o'clock.

    Or:
    • I'll do that by tomorrow some time.


    How about a rhyme?
    • If you have a sick cat
      Mike can help you with that.


    :)

  8. #8
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    Default Re: related/relevant V.S. relation/relationship

    Quote Originally Posted by MikeNewYork
    Quote Originally Posted by blacknomi

    The theory bears little relevance to practice.
    The theory bears little relation to practice.
    Both of these are used, along with "bears little relationship". The classic phrase is "bears little resemblance".
    I see it.

    Quote Originally Posted by MikeNewYork
    Quote Originally Posted by blacknomi
    (c)
    For more relevant topics, please go to UsingEnglis.com.
    For more related topics, please go to UsingEnglis.com.
    These are both fine, but they can have different meanings. The first sends you to find topics that are more relevant to the issue than the other topics or to find additinal relevant topics. The second sends you only for additional topics that are also related.
    If I ask a teacher a question of 'preposition' at esl.about.com, and you direct me to UsingEnglish.com to get more answers about preposition. Also if I have further grammatical questions such as phrasal preposition, adjective and so on, surely I can find them at UE. They are relevent topics. But for related topics, they are questions of 'preposition' only.

    In this case,'relevant' deals with a broader scope than 'related'. Is that right?


    Quote Originally Posted by MikeNewYork
    Quote Originally Posted by blacknomi
    Is umemployment causually related to crime?
    Is umemployment causually relevant to crime?
    I think you want "causally", related to "causing" -- not casually, related to being casual.

    I would only use the first. To be causally related means to have something to do with the cause. "Causally relevant" doesn't have much meaning for me.
    It was very true. That's my fault.



    Quote Originally Posted by MikeNewYork
    Quote Originally Posted by blacknomi
    (e)
    After this incidence, we broke off diplomatic relations with their country.
    After this incidence, we broke off diplomatic relationships with their country.
    In this case, "relations" is the only possible choice. It is the standard way to describe diplomacy.
    OK, I have to accept it. :wink:



    Quote Originally Posted by MikeNewYork
    Quote Originally Posted by blacknomi
    (f)
    The relation between landlorad and tenant remains a myth.
    The relationship between landlorad and tenant remains a myth.
    In this case, one would use "relationship".
    I don't quite get it by your meaning 'in this case.'
    How about in this case?
    The relation between Iraq and USA is tight.
    The relationship between Iraq and USA is tight.


    And this?
    The relation between the war at Iraq and the price of pretrolium is obviously close.
    The relationship between the war at Iraq and the price of pretrolium is obviously close.
    As I analysed before, I'd use 'relation' in this case because 'war' and 'price' are not concrete idea for me.


    Quote Originally Posted by MikeNewYork
    Quote Originally Posted by blacknomi
    (g)
    What does "relations" in this phrase of "friends and relations"?
    That means "people who are related to the speaker".
    I see.



    Please kindly rescue the sick cat in water. :?

  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by RonBee
    Quote Originally Posted by blacknomi
    Dear Mike,

    Thank you very much indeed, as always. I'll get this done by today and I'm afraid I have to bother you again.

    Could you kindly offer a few sample tests for I can fill in the blanks to see if I get it?


    Good night there.
    Um, may I interrupt? You can't use by with today. (True, you did do that.) We only use by with a future time, which is why we don't use by with today. You could, for example, say:
    • I'll do that by five o'clock.

    Or:
    • I'll do that by tomorrow some time.


    How about a rhyme?
    • If you have a sick cat
      Mike can help you with that.


    :)
    Dear Ron, thanks for correction.
    How about
    "I'll do that today by five o'clock."


    Could you make a rhyme in your sleep?

  10. #10
    RonBee's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by blacknomi
    Quote Originally Posted by RonBee
    Quote Originally Posted by blacknomi
    Dear Mike,

    Thank you very much indeed, as always. I'll get this done by today and I'm afraid I have to bother you again.

    Could you kindly offer a few sample tests for I can fill in the blanks to see if I get it?


    Good night there.
    Um, may I interrupt? You can't use by with today. (True, you did do that.) We only use by with a future time, which is why we don't use by with today. You could, for example, say:
    • I'll do that by five o'clock.

    Or:
    • I'll do that by tomorrow some time.


    How about a rhyme?
    • If you have a sick cat
      Mike can help you with that.


    :)
    Dear Ron, thanks for correction.
    How about
    "I'll do that today by five o'clock."
    That is good.

    :)


    Quote Originally Posted by blacknomi
    Could you make a rhyme in your sleep?
    I think probably I have. At least, I have gotten up in the middle of the night to write them down.

    :wink:

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