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Thread: really true?

  1. #1
    Taka is offline Senior Member
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    Default really true?

    My English-Japanese dictionary says that the conjunction "as" can be used as "whereas", and gives an example of such usage as follows:

    (a) Men usually like wrestling whereas women do not= (b)Men usually like wrestling as women do not.

    Is this really true? To me (b) sounds really weird. Plus, I've checked several Engilish dictionaries at hand including The American Heritage, Oxford Advanced Learner's , but none of them says "as" can be used as "whereas".

    What do you think, teachers?

  2. #2
    A.Russell is offline Member
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    Default Re: really true?

    Quote Originally Posted by Taka
    My English-Japanese dictionary says that the conjunction "as" can be used as "whereas", and gives an example of such usage as follows:

    (a) Men usually like wrestling whereas women do not= (b)Men usually like wrestling as women do not.

    Is this really true? To me (b) sounds really weird. Plus, I've checked several Engilish dictionaries at hand including The American Heritage, Oxford Advanced Learner's , but none of them says "as" can be used as "whereas".

    What do you think, teachers?


    In the second one "as" means "because". So you are right.


    My Canon word tank is full of funny Japlish, if I hunt around in it a bit. It gives an example of "lap" -She lapped the baby in her shawl

  3. #3
    Taka is offline Senior Member
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    Default Re: really true?

    Quote Originally Posted by A.Russell


    In the second one "as" means "because". So you are right.


    My Canon word tank is full of funny Japlish, if I hunt around in it a bit. It gives an example of "rap" -She lapped the baby in her shawl


    As you might know living in Japan, Japanese people are not good at telling the difference between "r" and "l".

    By the way, let me ask some questions.

    #1: So, you don't think "as" can be used as "whereas"?
    #2: You say "as" in "Men usually like wrestling as women do not. " is equivalent to "because". Then the sentence should be equal to "Men usually like wrestling, and the reason is that women do not like it". I don't understand the sentence at all...

  4. #4
    A.Russell is offline Member
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    Default Re: really true?


    #1: So, you don't think "as" can be used as "whereas"?
    #2: You say "as" in "Men usually like wrestling as women do not. " is equivalent to "because". Then the sentence should be equal to "Men usually like wrestling, and the reason is that women do not like it". I don't understand the sentence at all...
    #1: No, since "as" suggests sameness and "whereas" suggests difference.

    Men like wrestling whereas women don't. -Men like wrestling; women don't

    Men like wrestling as women do. -Men like wrestling the same as women do

    "As" is used differently here to your example above, in which case it means "because."

    #2: That's right, though it might be easier to word it as, "Men like wrestling because women don't." or "Because women don't like wrestling, men do."

    Hope that helps.

  5. #5
    Taka is offline Senior Member
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    Default Re: really true?

    Quote Originally Posted by A.Russell
    #2: That's right, though it might be easier to word it as, "Men like wrestling because women don't." or "Because women don't like wrestling, men do."
    OK, let me explain what.

    The reason I 'm puzzled is that, in my opinion, that women don't like wrestling cannot be the reason why men like it. Under what logic can it be??

  6. #6
    A.Russell is offline Member
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    Default Re: really true?

    Quote Originally Posted by Taka
    Quote Originally Posted by A.Russell
    #2: That's right, though it might be easier to word it as, "Men like wrestling because women don't." or "Because women don't like wrestling, men do."
    OK, let me explain what.

    The reason I 'm puzzled is that, in my opinion, that women don't like wrestling cannot be the reason why men like it. Under what rogic can it be??
    You asked a grammar question. The sentence was not a good example. As you said at the beginning, it sounds strange. That's because it is strange. Throw that dictionary away :P . It seems to me that your English is advanced enough to start using a native speaker one anyway. Also get a couple of Micheal Swan books for grammar explanations. I used to have them when I started out teaching, and they were invaluable.

  7. #7
    Taka is offline Senior Member
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    Default Re: really true?

    Quote Originally Posted by A.Russell
    You asked a grammar question. The sentence was not a good example. As you said at the beginning, it sounds strange. That's because it is strange. Throw that dictionary away :P .
    So the sentence doesn't make any sense in the first place.

    Thank you Mr, Russell.

    Quote Originally Posted by A.Russell
    It seems to me that your English is advanced enough to start using a native speaker one anyway. Also get a couple of Micheal Swan books for grammar explanations. I used to have them when I started out teaching, and they were invaluable.
    Actually, I have many of them already. :D

    I spent four years in the States, and now I teach English here in Japan. As most of the students here use English-Japanese dictionaries and most of the texts are based on the "authentic" English-Japanese ones (you know what? The example I posted here is from "Genius" English-Japanse Dictionary.) , I have to teach according to such dictionaries, which often makes me so confused.

    And that's the reason I'm here. :D

    Anyway, thank you for the help, Mr Rusell.

    (By the way, just after saying Japanese are not good at telling "r" from"l", I happen to be one of them; I misspelled "rogic" for "logic". I've edited it. Embarrassing... )

  8. #8
    RonBee's Avatar
    RonBee is offline Moderator
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    Default Re: really true?

    Quote Originally Posted by Taka
    Quote Originally Posted by A.Russell
    #2: That's right, though it might be easier to word it as, "Men like wrestling because women don't." or "Because women don't like wrestling, men do."
    OK, let me explain what.

    The reason I 'm puzzled is that, in my opinion, that women don't like wrestling cannot be the reason why men like it. Under what logic can it be??
    I think one way of explaining it is that that sentence does not make sense unless as means because. But, as you pointed out, it still doesn't make sense.

    :)

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    Taka is offline Senior Member
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    Default Re: really true?

    OK. Thanks, RonBee.

  10. #10
    Taka is offline Senior Member
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    Default Re: really true?

    Quote Originally Posted by A.Russell
    My Canon word tank is full of funny Japlish, if I hunt around in it a bit. It gives an example of "lap" -She lapped the baby in her shawl
    Oh! You edited it, Mr. Russell. And it was not an "r or l" problem.

    Yes, I've found the same kind of sentences as follows:

    She lapped her baby in the blanket.
    He lapped a blanket around himself.


    It was not until you notified it that I knew such sentences sounded strange to you native speakers.

    Could you tell me why they are funny?

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