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  1. #1
    navi tasan is offline Key Member
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    Default scope of negation

    Can one say:
    1-I don't like him as much as you.

    istead of:

    2-I dislike him as much as you do.

  2. #2
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    Default Re: scope of negation

    Quote Originally Posted by navi tasan
    Can one say:
    1-I don't like him as much as you.

    istead of:

    2-I dislike him as much as you do.
    I am not a teacher.

    1 = you like him but I do not
    2 = you do not like him and I do not like him at all

  3. #3
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    I don't like him as much as you
    This is ambiguous. My understanding would be that you like both of us but you prefer me. This can also mean you like him but I like him even more (the trailing 'do' is omitted then => 'as much as you do').
    But from your question I believe you meant you and I don't like him.
    I would stick to your 2nd sentence.

    FRC

  4. #4
    navi tasan is offline Key Member
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    Both sentences are correct.
    The first sentence could be ambiguous, but that does by no means mean it is wrong.

    1-I don't like him as much as you.

    First meaning: I like you more than I like him.
    Second meaning: I don't like him as much as you like him.

    Now the question was, could the first sentence be used instead of:
    2-I don't like him as much as you don't like him.

  5. #5
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    1-a. She doesn't sing as well as me.
    1-b. She doesn't sing as well as I do.

    In 1-a, an object pronoun is used after 'as', it is an informal style, whereas in 1-b, subject+verb is used after 'as', it is more formal.


    As you can see, in your example #2
    #2. I don't like him as much as you.
    2-a. I don't like him as much as you do. ( 'you' is a subject)
    2-b. I don't like him as much as you. ('you' is an object pronoun)

    2-a and 2-b are possible variants of #2. Have you noticed that we have a subject 'you' and an object 'you'?


    In 2-a, both of us like him, but I like him less and you like him more. Ambuguity is cleared out in 2-a because 'you' is a subject.
    What are the two equal things you compare now?
    1. I don't like him. (subject)
    2. You don't like him. (subject)



    In 2-b, I don't think it's usual to regard 'you' as a subject. For example, I don't like him as much as she. In this sentence, it is ungrammatical. You either say I don't like him as much as her or I don't like him as much as she does. So I don't think 2-b is that ambiguous. It means I like you more than I like him. 'You' is for sure an object of the main verb 'like'.
    What are the two equal things you compare now?
    1. I like him. (object)
    2. I like you. (object)


    This is your question,
    I don't like him as much as you don't like him.
    ==> I think this sentence is gramatically strange. 'As + Adj/Adv + as' is used to compare two equal things. Here in your sentence, you compare the feeling of 'like him'.

    I don't [like him as much as you like him.]
    ==>'don't' negates the idea in my brackets. Is this the negation scope you need? Therefore, we apply 'pro-verb' substitution to the latter 'like him', and then it generates a new variants,
    I don't [like him as much as you do.]

    So the latter 'like him' is within negation scope, I think there is no need to negate the latter 'like him' again.


    What do you think?

    :wink:

  6. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by blacknomi
    1-a. She doesn't sing as well as me.
    1-b. She doesn't sing as well as I do.

    In 1-a, an object pronoun is used after 'as', it is an informal style, whereas in 1-b, subject+verb is used after 'as', it is more formal.


    As you can see, in your example #2
    #2. I don't like him as much as you.
    2-a. I don't like him as much as you do. ( 'you' is a subject)
    2-b. I don't like him as much as you. ('you' is an object pronoun)

    2-a and 2-b are possible variants of #2. Have you noticed that we have a subject 'you' and an object 'you'?


    In 2-a, both of us like him, but I like him less and I like you more. Ambuguity is cleared out in 2-a.
    In 2-b, I don't think it's usual to regard 'you' as a subject. For example, I don't like him as much as she. In this sentence, it is ungrammatical. You either say I don't like him as much as her or I don't like him as much as she does. So I don't think 2-b is that ambiguous. It means I like you more than him.

    This is your question,
    I don't like him as much as you don't like him.
    ==> I think this sentence is gramatically strange. 'As + Adj/Adv + as' is used to compare two equal things. Here in your sentence, you compare the feeling of 'like him'.

    I don't [like him as much as you like him.]
    ==>'don't' negates the idea in my brackets. Is this the negation scope you need? Therefore, we imply 'pro-verb' substitution to the latter 'like him', and then it generates a new variants,
    I don't [like him as much as you do.]

    So the latter 'like him' is within negation scope, I think there is no need to negate the latter 'like him' again.


    What do you think?

    :wink:
    She doesn't sing as well as me. It does not sound right. She does not sing as well as I do?

    Where is the cavalry today?

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    Wait, I'm still editing! :?

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    She doesn't sing as well as me. It does not sound right.
    This is informal, though gramatically incorrect.

    She does not sing as well as I do?
    Yes, but you can also say 'She does not sing as well as I' (verb omitted).

    FRC

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    I don't like him as much as she. In this sentence, it is ungrammatical.
    I believe this one is formal, but correct.
    Teachers?

    FRC

  10. #10
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    Hi,

    According Michael Swan, 'she doesn't sing as well as me' is used in an informal style. I do think you can omit 'do', but it may produce ambiguity. I was trying to analyze from different points. Let's wait for Mike sensei. :wink:

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