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  1. #1
    Dawood Usmani's Avatar
    Dawood Usmani is offline Senior Member
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    Question Present Perfect or Past Simple?

    Dear teachers!
    Is this sentence correct?
    The holy Prophet has foretold some signs by which to recognize the approach the Day of Judgment.
    Question 1: Should the above sentence be in Present Perfect Tense or Past Simple Tense? If Present Perfect, Why, even though the holy Prophet is no more with us. HE went back a long time ago. ( Is Present Perfect ok just because the signs are still present or what?)
    Question 2: Should we add the indirect object e.g. "us" after the verb or not?
    Question 3: Is the use of " by which to recognize..." grammatically correct or should that be " in order to recognize..."?
    I'm confused and mixed up now. Would anybody please help me out?
    Best regards!
    DAwood
    Last edited by Dawood Usmani; 14-Dec-2007 at 12:13.

  2. #2
    Buddhaheart is offline Member
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    Default Re: Present Perfect or Past Simple?

    Ans.1: The sentence is in PPT (Present Perfect Tense). It’s used in lieu of the PST (Past Simple Tense) to replace the past action (‘foretold’) as continuing to the present (the effect). It tells about the past and the present. It talks about the foretelling in the past and its relevance to the present time.

    It doesn’t matter whether the prophet is still with us or not. The sentence gives no such indication. Indeed if you use the simple tense, it would have to be in the past. The PPT is fine.

    Ans. 2: ‘Signs' is the DO. I suppose you could add ‘we’ to the sentence as an IO or as one of the double objects.

    Ans. 3: It’s kind of a shortened form of ‘The holy Prophet has foretold some signs by which he wanted (would like) us to recognize the approach of the Day of Judgment.’ You may also use ‘in order’ in ‘The holy Prophet has foretold some signs in order for us to recognize the approach of the Day of Judgment.’

  3. #3
    Dawood Usmani's Avatar
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    Question Re: Present Perfect or Past Simple?

    Quote Originally Posted by Buddhaheart View Post
    Ans.1: The sentence is in PPT (Present Perfect Tense). It’s used in lieu of the PST (Past Simple Tense) to replace the past action (‘foretold’) as continuing to the present (the effect). It tells about the past and the present. It talks about the foretelling in the past and its relevance to the present time.

    It doesn’t matter whether the prophet is still with us or not. The sentence gives no such indication. Indeed if you use the simple tense, it would have to be in the past. The PPT is fine.

    Ans. 2: ‘Signs' is the DO. I suppose you could add ‘we’ to the sentence as an IO or as one of the double objects.

    Ans. 3: It’s kind of a shortened form of ‘The holy Prophet has foretold some signs by which he wanted (would like) us to recognize the approach of the Day of Judgment.’ You may also use ‘in order’ in ‘The holy Prophet has foretold some signs in order for us to recognize the approach of the Day of Judgment.’
    Dear Sir, thanks very much for your answer. Now I'm a bit confused about what to use ( or more accurately what would be the best)?
    1- The holy Prophet has foretold some signs by which to recognize...
    2- The hole Prophet has foretold us some signs by which to recognize...
    3- The hole Prophet has foretold us some signs to recognize...
    4- The hole Prophet has foretold us some signs in order to recognize...
    5- The hole Prophet has foretold some signs in order for us to recognize...
    Question: (2) What do you mean by ‘Signs' is the DO.?
    Regards!
    Dawood
    Last edited by Dawood Usmani; 15-Dec-2007 at 08:36.

  4. #4
    Buddhaheart is offline Member
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    Default Re: Present Perfect or Past Simple?

    The original sentence looks fine to me. I think the pronoun ‘us’ is not really necessary as it’s understood. The 5th one with ‘in order for us’ is possible.

    In (2), ‘signs’ is the direct object (DO).

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