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  1. #1
    vil is offline VIP Member
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    Default the boiling temperature-the boiling water

    Dear teachers,

    There are two sentences, one - with a gerund and the other-with a participle I. In my opinion, suchlike grammar forms present a matter of some difficulties for many NES.

    "The boiling temperature of water is 100 degree C."

    "At sea level, the temperature of boiling water is 100 degree C."

    In most cases the differentiation between the gerund and the participle does not present any difficulty. There are cases, however, when the differentiation between the gerund and the participle presents some difficulty.If we have a participle used as an attribute the person denoted by the noun performs the action expressed by the ing-form, e.g. a dancing girl (a girl who dances), a singing child, etc.

    However, there are cases which admit of two interpretations (I have attracted your attention to this before many times yet); for example: a sewing machine may be understood in two ways: a machine for sewing and a machine which sews; a hunting dog may be a dog for hunting and a dog that hunts.

    Would you be kind enough to share with me as well as the rest of members the present forum your undoubtedly copious practical experience focusing on this themes?

    Thank you in advance for your efforts.

    Regards.

    V.

  2. #2
    oregeezer is offline Member
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    Default Re: the boiling temperature-the boiling water

    I don't have any trouble with the gerund and the participle. As a speaker of American English for over 75 years I would not recognize either of them! The sense of both sentences is the same (as are sewing machine/ machine that sews and dog for hunting/ dog that hunts) the grammar is of little practical use except as a device for teacher's who are unsure of their ability to utter good English sentences. Don't worry about the tense; teach them the sense!

  3. #3
    vil is offline VIP Member
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    Default Re: the boiling temperature-the boiling water

    Hi oregeezer,

    While there is life there is hope. I put my hope in the future, to the coming that memorable day, when I could say like you, "I don't have any trouble with the gerund and the participle, as well as with the English language as whole."I'm 10 years short of that cherish day.

    Thank you for your tense and clear explanation.

    Thank you also for your practical advise in proverb form:"to leave the esoteric knowledge out of account and to turn my attention to the sense."

    If I have gotten properly your idea, you speak to me about the common sense, as a philosophical notion.

    I know there are said to be basically three different learning styles: auditory/verbal, visual and kinetic/tactile. Everyone of the teachers uses a combination of all three, but usually have one preference method that works best for them. Your recommendation sounds "one have to try to incorporate all three mentioned above methods as much as possible, than when a student have a question, to answer it on the specific style that make the most sense of them.

    I know "common sense" = "sound judgment not based on specialized knowledges; native good judgment; common natural understanding.

    Common sense is the knack of seeing things as they are, and doing thing as they ought to be.

    There are no two ways about the concept, that the common sense is what people in common would agree,that which they "sense" in common is their common natural understanding. Probably, you have used this phrase to refer to belief or propositions that would in most people's experience be prudent an of sound judgment, without dependence upon esoteric knowledge or study or research, but based upon what is believed to be knowledge hold by people "in common", so: the knowledge and experience most people have, or are believed to have by the person using the term.

    All that sounds a little philosophical and baffling, but have a big practical application.

    That is the reason that I am a member the present forum.

    Thank you for your attention and patience with me.

    Regards.

    V.
    Last edited by vil; 10-Jan-2008 at 15:27.

  4. #4
    beascarpetta's Avatar
    beascarpetta is offline Key Member
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    Default Re: the boiling temperature-the boiling water

    Dear Vil,

    I think you are absolutely right in inquiring into grammatical structures
    As Orgeezer pointed out , he doesn't have to worry about them because he is a native speaker
    but as a non-native speaker you have to be able to fall back on some kind of structure
    (personally I think it's such a nice surprise to encounter somebody who actually knows what a gerund is)
    see you,
    beascarpetta

  5. #5
    vil is offline VIP Member
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    Default Re: the boiling temperature-the boiling water

    Dear beascarpetta,

    Thank you again for your seasonable and sobering recommendation.

    Really, as a non-native speaker, I have to proceed inquiring into grammatical structures at the time my journey along the studded with difficulties and impediments road toward assimilation of English language. I should find the most suitable kind of structure for the different questions cropping up before me by my daily work.

    Maybe it come as a surprise to all of you, if I share with you that we didn't know before such terms as Gerund and Participle, and suchlike as The Nominative Absolute constructions and Verbal Nouns , which are very similar
    concerning its form. You can't imagine how more the work is getting complicated.

    For example:


    Arriving to the hotel he went to his room.
    Coming to the window he opened it and listened.
    Look at the sleeping child.
    Not knowing his new phone number I was unable to tell him the news.
    The actor playing the part of Bernard Shaw is wonderful.
    The rain permitting me from coming.
    Time permitting , they will discuss the matter tomorrow.

    or

    I like reading novels by modern British writers.
    I do not like your coming late every time.
    Excuse my interrupting you.
    On arriving on the station they found no car.
    Seeing is believing.
    Seeing and believing are different things.
    Some people say that seeing is believing.
    I remember telling him about the meeting.
    Stop talking, please.
    You didn't forget telling him about the party, did you?
    He insist on Ben's joining us.
    This novel is worth reading.
    He is busy looking through the letters.
    Are you fond of skiing?
    I am tired of saying it over and over again.

    as well as

    When he saw his father enter the room he stopped smoking.
    Before entering his father's he stopped to smoke.
    I remember sending the letter.
    I must remember to send the letter.
    I shall never forget taking that examination.
    Do not forget to come to the examination tomorrow.

    I did make a mess of things, didn't I?

    Thank you for your understanding.

    Regards.

    V.

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