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  1. #1
    riverkid is offline Banned
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    Default Moved from - I didn't move to Miami thread

    {This has been moved from the following thread. I made a grammatical change to a part of Michael's response. He, quite rightly, questioned the change I made. Here we go, trying to determine if the change I made was necessary or desirable.}

    http://www.usingenglish.com/forum/ask-teacher/63166-i-didn-t-move-miami-2.html

    Quote Originally Posted by Grablevskij View Post
    A opens the fridge [to] and realizes that there is no beer in the house though they wanted to drink a little tonight.

    Doesn't "to realise" mean "and realises"? For me it is the same. Sorry to ask you, but I'm now studying the infinitive and everything is very important for me.

    Michael
    Holy jumpin' sheeps**t, Michael, you pose another toughie just when my brain is set to explode. [Just pullin' your leg. ]

    1. John opens the fridge and realizes that there is no beer in the house ...

    2. John opens the fridge to realize that there is no beer in the house ...

    I'd say no, that they don't mean the same. [though they could in some circumstances There is the collocation, "only to realize/discover".

    Does 2 hold the same meaning as 3?

    3. John opens the fridge only to realize/discover that there is no beer in the house ...

    Does 2 hold the meaning,

    John opens the fridge for the purpose of realizing,

    in the same way that,

    John opens the fridge to check/discover whether [that] there is [no] beer in the house ...

    Something's awry here and it may well just be my gray matter. More cogitation needed. Anyone, feel free to jump right in.
    Last edited by Tdol; 19-Mar-2008 at 08:18. Reason: The link pointed to 'New Reply' not the original thread

  2. #2
    Tdol is offline Editor, UsingEnglish.com
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    Default Re: Moved from - I didn't move to Miami thread

    I don't see how it can really have the 'in order to' meaning with realise; even if he suspected something, realise would not be my verb of choice for purpose.

  3. #3
    riverkid is offline Banned
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    Default Re: Moved from - I didn't move to Miami thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Tdol View Post
    I don't see how it can really have the 'in order to' meaning with realise; even if he suspected something, realise would not be my verb of choice for purpose.
    My thoughts too, Tdol.

    Do you feel the same way with,

    He opened the fridge only to realize ...

  4. #4
    Tdol is offline Editor, UsingEnglish.com
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    Default Re: Moved from - I didn't move to Miami thread

    I don't see that as being his sole motive for opening it; it doesn't work semantically for me.

  5. #5
    riverkid is offline Banned
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    Default Re: Moved from - I didn't move to Miami thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Tdol View Post
    I don't see that as being his sole motive for opening it; it doesn't work semantically for me.
    Why would it have to be the sole motive, Tdol? Let's just say he walked to fridge as a force of habit like many young people do, 'cause they're always hungry or whatever.

    Aren't the two different?

    A He opened the fridge to realize ...

    B He opened the fridge only to realize ...

    A sounds like a true infinitive of purpose. Is/Isn't the purpose of 'only' to remove that and denote that the two are unconnected.

    Another example might make it clearer.

    He opened the fridge only to realize that he'd forgot to stop at the store for milk.

    Only upon opening the fridge, did it occur to him that he'd forgotten to stop at the store for milk.
    Last edited by riverkid; 23-Mar-2008 at 02:26.

  6. #6
    Tdol is offline Editor, UsingEnglish.com
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    Default Re: Moved from - I didn't move to Miami thread

    A doesn't sound like a true infinitive of purpose to me; it would with a different verb (check, see, etc).

  7. #7
    riverkid is offline Banned
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    Default Re: Moved from - I didn't move to Miami thread

    Let me try this again, Tdol. I didn't mean to say what I said in the part I've bolded and put in red, directly below.

    A sounds like a true infinitive of purpose.

    Sorry about that. You must have wondered what I was on about. I've removed it from the body of my response below so that it won't confuse other readers.


    ++++++++++++++++++++++++++

    Why would it have to be the sole motive, Tdol? Let's just say he walked to fridge as a force of habit like many young people do, 'cause they're always hungry or whatever.

    Aren't the two different?

    A. He opened the fridge to realize ...

    B. He opened the fridge only to realize ...

    A has a form like a true infinitive of purpose but for reasons that are semantic, not syntactic, it can't be a true infinitive of purpose. [This was the part that confused Michael and obviously, me too. ]

    Why can't it be an infinitive of purpose? Because with an infinitive of purpose one obviously has to "pre-know" the purpose or it wouldn't be a purpose.

    Is the purpose of 'only' to remove that "connection" to an infinitive of purpose and denote that the two are unconnected?

    The following two examples are fine:

    He opened the fridge only to realize that he'd forgot to stop at the store for milk.

    Only upon opening the fridge, did it occur to him that he'd forgotten to stop at the store for milk.


    Is it even possible to have a sentence using 'realize' in this form without the qualifier 'only'?

    He opened the fridge to realize there was no beer.

    meaning,

    He opened the fridge and then he realized that there was no beer.

  8. #8
    Tdol is offline Editor, UsingEnglish.com
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    Default Re: Moved from - I didn't move to Miami thread

    Is it even possible to have a sentence using 'realize' in this form without the qualifier 'only'?
    I think I might be going screenblind with the words, but I don't think so.

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