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  1. #1
    Taka is offline Senior Member
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    Default on the contrary??

    The sentences:

    Any grouping of human beings has its own world: a certain range of knowledge and certain modes of evaluation. Such a worldview is subject to constant modification as time rolls on, Nor can its association with the particular groupings prevent it from being adopted, to a greater or a lesser extent, by members of some other grouping. On the contrary, information, tastes, habits, modes of feeling and judgement can be transmitted from one sociocultural grouping to another, and individuals can in any case have loyalties to more than one grouping, so that they themselves are mobile between different worldviews accordingly.

    Why "on the contrary"?? It's not contrary at all. In fact, it's almost the same thing, IMO; it seems to me that "information, tastes, habits, modes of feeling and judgement can be transmitted from one sociocultural grouping to another, and individuals can in any case have loyalties to more than one grouping..." is a paraphrase of "nor can its association with the particular groupings prevent it from being adopted...".

  2. #2
    bigjohn Guest

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    You have found a wonderful example of terrible writing. I suspect this to be a poor translation from another language.

  3. #3
    Taka is offline Senior Member
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    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by bigjohn
    You have found a wonderful example of terrible writing. I suspect this to be a poor translation from another language.
    So it's a translation, not written by a native speaker of English?

  4. #4
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    Default Re: on the contrary??

    Quote Originally Posted by Taka
    The sentences:

    Any grouping of human beings has its own world: a certain range of knowledge and certain modes of evaluation. Such a worldview is subject to constant modification as time rolls on, Nor can its association with the particular groupings prevent it from being adopted, to a greater or a lesser extent, by members of some other grouping. On the contrary, information, tastes, habits, modes of feeling and judgement can be transmitted from one sociocultural grouping to another, and individuals can in any case have loyalties to more than one grouping, so that they themselves are mobile between different worldviews accordingly.

    Why "on the contrary"?? It's not contrary at all. In fact, it's almost the same thing, IMO; it seems to me that "information, tastes, habits, modes of feeling and judgement can be transmitted from one sociocultural grouping to another, and individuals can in any case have loyalties to more than one grouping..." is a paraphrase of "nor can its association with the particular groupings prevent it from being adopted...".
    Taka, this is the way I interpret it - things cannot be prevented from being shared just the opposite they will move to other groups.
    May I inquire about the source of this paragraph?

  5. #5
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    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by bigjohn
    You have found a wonderful example of terrible writing. I suspect this to be a poor translation from another language.
    Please elaborate this statement. Thank you.

  6. #6
    Taka is offline Senior Member
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    Default Re: on the contrary??

    Sorry, twostep, I don't understand what you mean (the underlined part in particular).

    Quote Originally Posted by twostep
    Taka, this is the way I interpret it - things cannot be prevented from being shared just the opposite they will move to other groups.

    Quote Originally Posted by twostep
    May I inquire about the source of this paragraph?
    It's from an entrance exam of a Japanese university.

  7. #7
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    Default Re: on the contrary??

    Quote Originally Posted by Taka
    Sorry, twostep, I don't understand what you mean (the underlined part in particular).

    Quote Originally Posted by twostep
    Taka, this is the way I interpret it - things cannot be prevented from being shared just the opposite they will move to other groups.

    Quote Originally Posted by twostep
    May I inquire about the source of this paragraph?
    It's from an entrance exam of a Japanese university.
    "on the contrary" or "just the opposite" - it cannot be prevented that information is being shared, moves on. It is like a secret. It will be shared no matter how to try to keep it from being shared with others. Can you prevent some flowers from spreading in your garden? On the contrary - they self seed. There is nothing you can do but pull up seedlings.

  8. #8
    Taka is offline Senior Member
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    Default Re: on the contrary??

    Quote Originally Posted by twostep
    Taka, this is the way I interpret it - things cannot be prevented from being shared just the opposite they will move to other groups.

    "on the contrary" or "just the opposite" - it cannot be prevented that information is being shared, moves on. It is like a secret. It will be shared no matter how to try to keep it from being shared with others. Can you prevent some flowers from spreading in your garden? On the contrary - they self seed. There is nothing you can do but pull up seedlings.
    Now I see what you mean. The reason I didn't understand what you said is that you used "just the opposite" as a conjunction. Is such usage acceptable? If it is, I didn't know that.

    Anyway, I think [you cannot prevent some flowers from spreading in your garden]=[they seed themselves]. In other words, both mean plants proliferate. I see no difference between them. If it were:

    You cannot prevent some flowers from spreading in your garden. In fact, they seed themselves.

    then I think it would make sense.

  9. #9
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    Default Re: on the contrary??

    Quote Originally Posted by Taka
    Quote Originally Posted by twostep
    Taka, this is the way I interpret it - things cannot be prevented from being shared just the opposite they will move to other groups.

    "on the contrary" or "just the opposite" - it cannot be prevented that information is being shared, moves on. It is like a secret. It will be shared no matter how to try to keep it from being shared with others. Can you prevent some flowers from spreading in your garden? On the contrary - they self seed. There is nothing you can do but pull up seedlings.
    Now I see what you mean. The reason I didn't understand what you said is that you used "just the opposite" as a conjunction. Is such usage acceptable? If it is, I didn't know that.

    I disagree Your Honor :wink:
    You pack lunch for your child and tell him not to share it with friend A. In contrary - he shared it with friend A and friend B. In fact - he shared but on the contrary to your instructions. I think you have to bring that in. No matter what kings and chieftains or nature intended - ideas and progress countered instructions. Call it an act of disobedience. Is that how my cookies got spread around the whole class?

    Anyway, I think [you cannot prevent some flowers from spreading in your garden]=[they seed themselves]. In other words, both mean plants proliferate. I see no difference between them. If it were:

    You cannot prevent some flowers from spreading in your garden. In fact, they seed themselves.

    then I think it would make sense.

  10. #10
    Taka is offline Senior Member
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    Default Re: on the contrary??

    Ah! Now I got it

    My Oxford Advanced Learner's only says:

    on the contrary: used to introduce a statement that says the opposite of the last one.

    And that was the only definition I knew, before I checked The American Heritage, which says:

    on the contrary :In opposition to what has been stated or what is expected.

    I've learned a lot now. :D

    Thank you!

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