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Thread: while


    • Join Date: May 2004
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    #11
    Quote Originally Posted by tdol
    If you said 'while it hasn't been raining, the street is wet' it works. the other way round does sound a bit strange. Sadly, I am going to hide behing the native speaker's defence of 'it sounds' rather than coming up with a sound reason.;-(
    Thank you for the flowers - absolutely non-native. Has anyone heard from Cassie lateley? She may have a logical explanation.


    • Join Date: Apr 2004
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    #12
    Has anyone heard from Cassie lateley?
    I miss her already. :wink:


    • Join Date: Jun 2004
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    #13
    I miss her already.
    lol :)

    The weather is rainy. It is raining.
    For some reason "while" does not fit. Try the common sense approach - the street is wet - no rain. You expect it to be wet when it rains. So - why is it wet? I think that is where "although" comes in place.
    Taka knows that, the point is that 'while' sometimes means 'although', and it works indeed if you say "while it has not been raining, ...".
    IMO, it does not sound right b/c natives don't use it, and they don't use it b/c it's too prone to confusion with the temporal meaning of 'while' (whereas the inversion makes it clear).

    FRC


    • Join Date: May 2004
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    #14
    Quote Originally Posted by Francois
    I miss her already.
    lol :)

    The weather is rainy. It is raining.
    For some reason "while" does not fit. Try the common sense approach - the street is wet - no rain. You expect it to be wet when it rains. So - why is it wet? I think that is where "although" comes in place.
    Taka knows that, the point is that 'while' sometimes means 'although', and it works indeed if you say "while it has not been raining, ...".
    IMO, it does not sound right b/c natives don't use it, and they don't use it b/c it's too prone to confusion with the temporal meaning of 'while' (whereas the inversion makes it clear).

    FRC
    Confused, blonde day! Can you please translate this?

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    #15
    Quote Originally Posted by blacknomi
    Has anyone heard from Cassie lateley?
    I miss her already. :wink:
    Isn't she allowed a holiday?


    • Join Date: May 2004
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    #16
    Quote Originally Posted by tdol
    Quote Originally Posted by blacknomi
    Has anyone heard from Cassie lateley?
    I miss her already. :wink:
    Isn't she allowed a holiday?
    Only after approval by the needy masses! I hope she has a very pleasant time off - as long as she comes back! :wink: :wink:
    By the way Red is also MIA.


    • Join Date: Jun 2004
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    #17
    Quote Originally Posted by twostep
    Quote Originally Posted by Francois
    I miss her already.
    lol :)

    The weather is rainy. It is raining.
    For some reason "while" does not fit. Try the common sense approach - the street is wet - no rain. You expect it to be wet when it rains. So - why is it wet? I think that is where "although" comes in place.
    Taka knows that, the point is that 'while' sometimes means 'although', and it works indeed if you say "while it has not been raining, ...".
    IMO, it does not sound right b/c natives don't use it, and they don't use it b/c it's too prone to confusion with the temporal meaning of 'while' (whereas the inversion makes it clear).

    FRC
    Confused, blonde day! Can you please translate this?
    Quote Originally Posted by tdol
    If you said 'while it hasn't been raining, the street is wet' it works.
    As Tdol confirmed, this sentence is correct. Here, 'while' has more or less the same meaning as 'although'. This is not always the case, though. So the question is not about the logic of the sentence, but when can 'while' be used to mean 'although'.

    FRC


    • Join Date: May 2004
    • Posts: 727
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    #18
    Quote Originally Posted by Francois
    Quote Originally Posted by twostep
    Quote Originally Posted by Francois
    I miss her already.
    lol :)

    The weather is rainy. It is raining.
    For some reason "while" does not fit. Try the common sense approach - the street is wet - no rain. You expect it to be wet when it rains. So - why is it wet? I think that is where "although" comes in place.
    Taka knows that, the point is that 'while' sometimes means 'although', and it works indeed if you say "while it has not been raining, ...".
    IMO, it does not sound right b/c natives don't use it, and they don't use it b/c it's too prone to confusion with the temporal meaning of 'while' (whereas the inversion makes it clear).

    FRC
    Confused, blonde day! Can you please translate this?
    Quote Originally Posted by tdol
    If you said 'while it hasn't been raining, the street is wet' it works.
    As Tdol confirmed, this sentence is correct. Here, 'while' has more or less the same meaning as 'although'. This is not always the case, though. So the question is not about the logic of the sentence, but when can 'while' be used to mean 'although'.

    FRC
    He turned the sentence and thus the structure around.


    • Join Date: Jun 2004
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    #19
    Yeah, we noticed that :)
    When you turn it around, it becomes correct. Strange, isn't it?

    FRC


    • Join Date: Apr 2004
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    #20
    Hi, Taka,

    There's an explanation based on Practical English Usge by Michael Swan.


    balancing contrasting points:on the other hand/while/whereas
    These expressions are used to balance two facts or ideas that contrast, but do not contradic each other.
    1. Arranged marriages are common in many Middle Eastern countries.In the West, on the other hand, they are unusual.
    2.I like spending my hoilidays in the mountains, while/whereas my wife prefers the saeside.
    3.While/Whereas some languages have 30 or more different vowel sounds, others have five or less.

    Seems like turning it around just makes sense. The reversed one may sound a tad awkward. Hope that helps. :wink:

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