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  1. #1
    jiang is offline Key Member
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    Default mark off and mark out

    Dear teachers,

    I have four questions to ask:

    Question No.1
    I get confused by the two phrases "mark off " and "mark out". The following is from the dictionary:

    I. The first meaning
    No.1
    mark off: 1. to separate an area by putting something around it:
    Police had marked off the area where the body was found.
    No.2
    mark out: 1. to show the shape or position of something by drawing a line around it:
    He'd marked out a volleyball court on the beach with a stick.
    The only difference is "by putting something around it" in No.1 and "by drawing a line around it". Does it mean I can only use "a line" or something like that when I use "mark out"? But policemen always put tape around certain area where a crime was committed. Why "mark off" should be used?

    II. The second meaning
    No.1
    mark off: to make a person, period of time etc seem different from others.
    No.2
    mark out: to make somebody or something seem very different from or much better than others
    To me the only difference is the degree. Is that right?

    Question No.2

    The rules I was taught about parst participle are
    A. past participles can be put before the noun it modifes. For example, advanced age, retired army office.
    B.If it is a past participle phrase it should be put after the noun it modifies. For example
    a. Is there anything planned for tonight?
    b. Most people invited to the party were old friends.
    C. Past participles such as discussed, found, built, invited, made, mentioned, obtained, received, questioned, shown and told can only be put after a noun it modifies.
    But the following example is from my textbook:
    He was like a man drugged.
    Could you please explain why "drugged" is put after "a man"?

    Question No.3
    Mr.Baker is out for a little stroll.
    Can I use "outside" instead of "out"?

    Question No.4
    She is away for a meeting in Shanghai.
    Can I use "off " instead of "away"?
    Looking forward to hearing from you.
    Thank you in advance.
    Jiang
    Last edited by jiang; 15-Apr-2008 at 03:55.

  2. #2
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    Default Re: mark off and mark out

    Quote Originally Posted by jiang View Post
    Dear teachers,

    I have four questions to ask:

    Question No.1
    I get confused by the two phrases "mark off " and "mark out". The following is from the dictionary:

    I. The first meaning
    No.1
    mark off: 1. to separate an area by putting something around it:
    Police had marked off the area where the body was found.
    No.2
    mark out: 1. to show the shape or position of something by drawing a line around it:
    He'd marked out a volleyball court on the beach with a stick.
    The only difference is "by putting something around it" in No.1 and "by drawing a line around it". Does it mean I can only use "a line" or something like that when I use "mark out"? But policemen always put tape around certain area where a crime was committed. Why "mark off" should be used?

    II. The second meaning
    No.1
    mark off: to make a person, period of time etc seem different from others.
    No.2
    mark out: to make somebody or something seem very different from or much better than others
    To me the only difference is the degree. Is that right?

    Question No.2

    The rules I was taught about parst participle are
    A. past participles can be put before the noun it modifes. For example, advanced age, retired army office.
    B.If it is a past participle phrase it should be put after the noun it modifies. For example
    a. Is there anything planned for tonight?
    b. Most people invited to the party were old friends.
    C. Past participles such as discussed, found, built, invited, made, mentioned, obtained, received, questioned, shown and told can only be put after a noun it modifies.
    But the following example is from my textbook:
    He was like a man drugged.
    Could you please explain why "drugged" is put after "a man"?

    Question No.3
    Mr.Baker is out for a little stroll.
    Can I use "outside" instead of "out"?

    Question No.4
    She is away for a meeting in Shanghai.
    Can I use "off " instead of "away"?
    Looking forward to hearing from you.
    Thank you in advance.
    Jiang
    1. Too complicated for me.

    2. The past participle is used as a PASSIVE. He is like a man who has been drugged by someone else. 'A drugged man' carries the same connotation.

    3. If he is strolling, it is likely that he is outside (the building). You can correctly say: 'he has gone outside for a stroll'.

    To be 'out' means 'not to be in' or 'not to be available'. One can still go out (of a room) and not be outside (the building). For example, one can leave a meeting room and go out for a cup of tea, or a cigarette.

    4. These are both very casual uses of 'away' and 'off'. 'She's away AT a meeting' is possible, 'he's OFF at a meeting' is acceptable (just), 'she's gone away FOR a meeting' is fine, likewise, 'she's gone off TO a meeting' is excellent.

  3. #3
    jiang is offline Key Member
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    Default Re: mark off and mark out

    Dear fromatto,

    Thank you very much for your explanation. Now I understand them. And if No.1 is too complicated for you native speakers it seems it is impossible for me to distinguish them.

    Best wishes,

    Jiang
    Quote Originally Posted by fromatto View Post
    1. Too complicated for me.

    2. The past participle is used as a PASSIVE. He is like a man who has been drugged by someone else. 'A drugged man' carries the same connotation.

    3. If he is strolling, it is likely that he is outside (the building). You can correctly say: 'he has gone outside for a stroll'.

    To be 'out' means 'not to be in' or 'not to be available'. One can still go out (of a room) and not be outside (the building). For example, one can leave a meeting room and go out for a cup of tea, or a cigarette.

    4. These are both very casual uses of 'away' and 'off'. 'She's away AT a meeting' is possible, 'he's OFF at a meeting' is acceptable (just), 'she's gone away FOR a meeting' is fine, likewise, 'she's gone off TO a meeting' is excellent.

  4. #4
    vil is offline VIP Member
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    Default Re: mark off and mark out

    Attention: I’m not a teacher.

    Hi jiang,

    Please excuse my intervention but I really and truly want to help you. You might see the matter in question in the following link http://www.usingenglish.com/forum/as...-mark-out.html
    You might also find further information concerning the expressions in question in the following link: mark out - Synonyms from Thesaurus.com

    There aer a few words of me concerning the matter in question:

    mark off, to mark the proper dimensions or boundaries of; separate:
    We marked off the limits of our lot with stakes.
    Set boundaries to and deliminates “mark out the territory”
    The qualities which mark him off from his colleagues. (mark off = separate)
    Put a check mark on or near or next to
    Please check each name on the list.
    Tick off the items.
    Make off the units
    To mark off a distance on the map

    mark out, mark off ; exclude
    cull, pick out,
    delineate, describe, outline,
    earmark,

    To mark out a court.
    To mark out a tennis court.
    To mark out a claim.
    The course which Italy has marked out for herself
    An industry marked out for a brilliant future.
    To mark out for slaughter.
    To mark out = to mark the boundariy of (eg. a football pitch) by making lines etc.
    The pitch was marked out with white lines.

    To select or sort for some particular purpose etc. in the future
    He had been marked out for an army career from early childhood.

    There are some more examples.

    On the scale we mark off various landmark points. (trace, mark out, outline)
    And you use this to mark off of course. (trace, outline)
    Yet the law imposed prescriptions apparently designed to mark off the Jews from other nations. (separate)
    The only way to get precision was to mark off an area and count every individual plant within it.
    These differences might be represented as those which mark off the specialist team from the others.(separate)

    The mandatory penalty does indeed serve to mark out murder from other crimes, but whether the definition of murder is sufficiently refined..
    A critique of a form of thought will attempt to mark out its location, describe its boundaries, indicate its limitations and bring out its…
    …you need to mark out the part of the garden where the sun lingers longest.
    It is such universal perceptions as those of Darcy and Lady Julie that mark out Keneally as a major novelist.
    In fact, analysis of the interview material did not mark out the Irish women as particularly different from their British-born counterparts on any dimension of…
    It hopes these will mark out some boundaries for UEC II.

    Regards.

    V.

  5. #5
    jiang is offline Key Member
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    Default Re: mark off and mark out

    Dear vil,

    Thank you so much for your explanation. It helps me a lot. I shall read what you wrote and surf the website you give me carefully. I hope I can see the difference.

    Jiang
    Quote Originally Posted by vil View Post
    Attention: I’m not a teacher.

    Hi jiang,

    Please excuse my intervention but I really and truly want to help you. You might see the matter in question in the following link http://www.usingenglish.com/forum/as...-mark-out.html
    You might also find further information concerning the expressions in question in the following link: mark out - Synonyms from Thesaurus.com

    There aer a few words of me concerning the matter in question:

    mark off, to mark the proper dimensions or boundaries of; separate:
    We marked off the limits of our lot with stakes.
    Set boundaries to and deliminates “mark out the territory”
    The qualities which mark him off from his colleagues. (mark off = separate)
    Put a check mark on or near or next to
    Please check each name on the list.
    Tick off the items.
    Make off the units
    To mark off a distance on the map

    mark out, mark off ; exclude
    cull, pick out,
    delineate, describe, outline,
    earmark,

    To mark out a court.
    To mark out a tennis court.
    To mark out a claim.
    The course which Italy has marked out for herself
    An industry marked out for a brilliant future.
    To mark out for slaughter.
    To mark out = to mark the boundariy of (eg. a football pitch) by making lines etc.
    The pitch was marked out with white lines.

    To select or sort for some particular purpose etc. in the future
    He had been marked out for an army career from early childhood.

    There are some more examples.

    On the scale we mark off various landmark points. (trace, mark out, outline)
    And you use this to mark off of course. (trace, outline)
    Yet the law imposed prescriptions apparently designed to mark off the Jews from other nations. (separate)
    The only way to get precision was to mark off an area and count every individual plant within it.
    These differences might be represented as those which mark off the specialist team from the others.(separate)

    The mandatory penalty does indeed serve to mark out murder from other crimes, but whether the definition of murder is sufficiently refined..
    A critique of a form of thought will attempt to mark out its location, describe its boundaries, indicate its limitations and bring out its…
    …you need to mark out the part of the garden where the sun lingers longest.
    It is such universal perceptions as those of Darcy and Lady Julie that mark out Keneally as a major novelist.
    In fact, analysis of the interview material did not mark out the Irish women as particularly different from their British-born counterparts on any dimension of…
    It hopes these will mark out some boundaries for UEC II.

    Regards.

    V.

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