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  1. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by Casiopea
    Quote Originally Posted by Wai_Wai
    Quote Originally Posted by NewHope
    All native English speakers' opinions here were correct.
    Now I speak to you with Chinese Wai Wai.

    Thick skinned本意基本上是指无动于衷, 因此所有英美加等英语国家词典均不收入 Thick skinned = 厚颜无耻 这个释义。这样定义是完全准确的。而我遇到所有的这些国家的人(这个问题我以前在其它美国论坛提到过)均指 出 thick-skinned 不含厚颜无耻含义,甚至,该词有褒义倾向,比如对非难与指责表现"thick-skinned",指这个人态度豁达大度,不斤斤计较。那么你举的那个婚外情例子是怎么回事呢?老婆认为婚 外情是可耻的,而做老公的还无动于衷,那还不可耻么?翻译时为了简练,就直接用厚颜无耻替 代无动于衷 ==>>可耻这个过程,但你不能因此说无动于衷 = 厚颜无耻。因为这两个词是有本质区别的。
    I speak with you in Chinese.
    我有时只能打繁体字 (因不懂其字碼). (如你不明白的話, 請告訴我. 我會把它們轉為簡体字.)
    你說很对了. 我明白你的意思了.
    Thick-skinned 意指對批評/辱罵无动于衷 (中性詞). Shameless = 厚颜无耻 (贬义詞).
    你说不能因此说无动于衷 = 厚颜无耻, 我認同.

    我想必解釋差劲, 令人噴飯. 在此致謙.
    題目問thick-skinned ""可以"" 說为厚颜无耻(shameless)嗎?
    我想如上文下理許可下, thick-skinned可帶有shameless之意. 我便举了婚外情的例子. 在这里, 老公被怜人罵也无动于衷, 這是可耻的. 故此时的thick-skinned有shameless的味道.
    我誤导了大家以为我在說无动于衷 = 厚颜无耻, 我真是太差勁.


    現在我想求證二事:
    - 簡言之, thick-skinned 解无动于衷, 視情況而定, 它或可带有厚颜无耻的成份
    - thick-skinned本身不等於否定了有厚颜无耻的成份, 只是它不是一定有厚颜无耻的成份

    你的意見是怎样?
    I dare say that "thick-skinned" is a universal concept, that it shares the same meaning across cultures. I know that, in Japan, for example, to be thick-skinned is associated with shameless. To be thick-skinned means to be inconsiderate of another's feelings, to ignore criticism, constructive or destructive, which, in Japan, is considered shameless. One should always take into consideration the thoughts of others, and if they don't, well, then, they will eventually be made to feel guilty about it because hammering down the nail that sticks up , a famous Japanese idiom, express the full-bodied foundation of the culture. This is a group dependent society and so majority rules; What other people think of you is important because in a group dependent society the group says what goes! If you pay heed to their advice/criticism, it will grant you safe passage through life. So being open to others (i.e., accepting criticism) as opposed to being closed to others (i.e., ignoring criticism) is what it means to be Japanese. In short, not feeling guilty about not accepting criticism makes one shameless, whereas feeling guilty about not accepting criticism is what makes one a part of the group. :D No guilt? Aha! You're shameless. I believe that's the meaning in Chinese that NewHope and you were discussing, correct?

    In English, thick-skinned means, not sensitive to criticism, also, which, in my culture, Canadian culture, can be considered a good quality or bad quality. 'good' in the sense that a person who is thick-skinned doesn't allow the trivial things in life to bother/upset him/her. The less you let bother you, the stronger/better off you are.

    Sam: Did you hear what they said about you on the evening news? It wasn't very pleasant.
    Max: I heard it, but I chose not to listen to it. The criticism was unfair.
    Sam: You're thick-skinned. I would have been crying my eyes out if it were me.

    Canada is not a group society. It's individualism all the way. (Ahem, our independence separates us from the old country). Since we are not a group dependent society, what people have to say re: criticism is up to the individual to decide if s/he wants to listen to it or not. That is, s/he has a choice. There is no group per se, aside from parental advice--which is often is not always worth considering. S/he is not made to feel as if s/he has to or must or has an obligation to one's family or whathaveyou in order to satisfy some unwritten law. In Canada, being thick-skinned can save you, whereas in Japan, being thick-skinned can break you. :wink:

    In English, rarely does 'thick-skinned' refer to a 'bad' quality, 'bad' in the sense that a person who is thick-skinned may not be as emotionally in-tune with the world as we would like them to be. The more you ignore criticism, the more likely you'll lose the ability to determine whether the criticism is valid (i.e., whether you should listen to it) or ignore it.

    Pat: Max can be so thick-skinned sometimes!
    Sam: I know what you mean. Max just doesn't care when Max should care.

    In short, In Japanese, thick-skinned and shameless are related to guilt. In English, shameless and thick-skinned, although they share one similarity (i.e., lack of sensitivity), are not related. They express a lack a sensitivity for two different things:

    shameless: not sensitive to feeling guilty
    thick-skinned: not sensative to criticism.

    In Canada, one shouldn't feel guilty when faced with criticism. If it's constructive, it has the power to make one stronger; If it's destructive, it has the power to destroy a person's diginity and spirit, which may result in the person feeling angry or sad, or both. As for guilt, well, what's there to feel guilty about? There's no group pressure. As an individual, I make up my own mind.

    In Japan, accepting criticism is par for the course; it's ingrained in the culture: one listens to the group, no questions asked, whereas, in English, it's up to the individual to decide what's worth listening to and what's not worth listening to. Being thick-skinned has nothing to do with 'guilt' as it does in Japan. In Canada, being thick-skinned is a good thing: it can save you from a life of worry and trouble, whereas in a group depedent society, such as Japan, being thick-skinned is less preferred: it can break you. If you don't listen to the group, ties with your family, your group, and your culture will be severed, and quickly.

    All the best, :D
    Hi.
    It is an interesting idea.

    So does you mean "different cultures are different, it may be possible for us to interpret a word differently in case it is still within the boundary?

    Thick-skinned, I think it is a neutral word which simply mean one is insensitive to criticism/insults. To English people, they would very often use it as approving (said by you). To some other countries, they may as well use it as disapproving.

    You know, insensitive to criticism (which can include some that one should feel guilty of)


    Incidentally, I would like to ask you one thing (answer if you wish):
    - are you a Japanese or else?
    - are you a native speaker of English?
    - living in Japan?

    If you are a Japanese and non-native English speaker, you are very very great. You can master one language to that so high level. Admiring!! :D

  2. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wai_Wai
    So do you mean since different cultures are different, it may be possible for us to interpret a word differently in cases where it is still within the boundary?
    :D Yes.

    Quote Originally Posted by Wai_Wai
    Thick-skinned, I think it is a neutral word which simply means one is insensitive to criticism/insults.
    I agree with you :D, and add that culture has a great deal to do with how we see the world. Language stems from culture.

    Quote Originally Posted by Wai_Wai
    Incidentally, I would like to ask you a few things (answer if you wish): Are you a Japanese or else, are you a native speaker of English, and are living in Japan?
    In reply to your questions: Or else, yes, and yes.

    All the best, :D

  3. #23
    NewHope is offline Senior Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by Casiopea
    Quote Originally Posted by Wai_Wai
    Incidentally, I would like to ask you a few things (answer if you wish): Are you a Japanese or else, are you a native speaker of English, and are living in Japan?
    In reply to your questions: Or else, yes, and yes.

    All the best, :D
    Your English is absolutely cool, Casiopea. I always think you are a native English speaker. And now you said you are a Japanese! What a wonderful Japanese! I'd hold you in high respect!
    But, why did you say 'In English, thick-skinned means, not sensitive to criticism, also, which, in my culture, Canadian culture, can be considered a good quality or bad quality"?

    Is your culture Japanese culture? Is your culture Canadiam culture?

    I am so confused by you. 8)

  4. #24
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    I believe she is a native-speaker, from Canada and now teaching English in Japan (I may be wrong).

    FRC

  5. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by NewHope
    Your English is absolutely cool, Casiopea. I always think you are a native English speaker. And now you said you are a Japanese!
    Quote Originally Posted by Wai-Wai
    Incidentally, I would like to ask you one thing (answer if you wish):
    - are you a Japanese or else?
    - are you a native speaker of English?
    - living in Japan?
    Quote Originally Posted by Casiopea
    I reply to your questions: Or else, yes, and yes.
    For example
    Wai_Wai: Are you a Japanese or else?
    Casiopea: I am "or else". (Meaning, I am not Japanese)
    Wai_Wai: Are you a native speaker of English?
    Casiopea: Yes.
    Wai-Wai: Are you living in Japan?
    Casiopea: Yes.

    All the best, :D

  6. #26
    NewHope is offline Senior Member
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    Casiopea is an admirable Canadian lady, graceful, intelligent and humourous. Wai.Wai should be blamed in this case because she asked a question like offered us a brainteaser so that Casiopea caught a chance to cunningly tease us.

    Best,
    NewHope

  7. #27
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    NewHope,
    Why am I to blame?
    Did I do something wrong?
    (because of culture differences, I may do something which I have offended something unknowingly)

    I just asked "are yu a Japanese or else?" which is a very simple question without dirty tricks.

    No one will mislead except someone
    (joking~!)

  8. #28
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    Sometimes I think although one posts a female picture, one might wish to mislead us that the person must be a female. In fact, the opposite is the truth.

    The same holds true if one posts a graceful and elegant person.
    ^-^ (joking)

  9. #29
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    Thank you for your kind words, NewHope. :D

    Wai_Wai's question, "Are you Japanese or else?" is not to blame. Blame me, or rather, don't blame me , blame my answer, "Or else". I should have answered, "I am Canadian."

    It was my fault.
    The question is not to blame.
    It's a perfectly good question: Are you Japanese or (something) else? 8)

    All the best, :D

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