Results 1 to 6 of 6

    • Join Date: Apr 2007
    • Posts: 10
    • Post Thanks / Like
    #1

    to have been delivered?

    Hello, I've got a question regarding the usage of 'to have p.p.'
    Here is a dialogue that I've read.

    A(customer): I ordered a stuffed animal for my child.
    B(shop clerk): Let me check. Right. Didn't you get the delivery yet? It was supposed to have been delivered yesterday.
    A: Yes, I got the delivery, but it's not what I ordered........

    Why does B say like an underlined sentence above? I mean, instead of the original sentence, what about saying like this-'It was supposed to be delivered yesterday'?

    I just want to know the difference in meaning, or usage between 'to(infinite) verb' and 'to have p.p(present perfect form)'.

    p.s. I wonder if my question is clear enough. Please understand my poor English, and let me know if you are not sure of what my question is about.

    Anyway, thank you so much for your great help in advance!

    • Member Info
      • Member Type:
      • Other
      • Native Language:
      • English
      • Home Country:
      • Canada
      • Current Location:
      • Canada

    • Join Date: Apr 2007
    • Posts: 4,161
    • Post Thanks / Like
    #2

    Re: to have been delivered?

    Quote Originally Posted by je2ks2 View Post
    Hello, I've got a question regarding the usage of 'to have p.p.'
    Here is a dialogue that I've read.

    A(customer): I ordered a stuffed animal for my child.
    B(shop clerk): Let me check. Right. Didn't you get the delivery yet? It was supposed to have been delivered yesterday.
    A: Yes, I got the delivery, but it's not what I ordered........

    Why does B say like an underlined sentence above? I mean, instead of the original sentence, what about saying like this-'It was supposed to be delivered yesterday'? You can certainly say that.




    I just want to know the difference in meaning, or usage between 'to(infinite) verb' and 'to have p.p(present perfect form)'.

    "supposed to have been delivered" would also be correctly understood in this context, but in a different context "was supposed to have been delivered" can also mean 'was assumed to have been delivered'.


    p.s. I wonder if my question is clear enough. Please understand my poor English, and let me know if you are not sure of what my question is about.

    Anyway, thank you so much for your great help in advance!
    2006


    • Join Date: Apr 2008
    • Posts: 1,571
    • Post Thanks / Like
    #3

    Re: to have been delivered?

    Quote Originally Posted by je2ks2 View Post
    Hello, I've got a question regarding the usage of 'to have p.p.'
    Here is a dialogue that I've read.

    A(customer): I ordered a stuffed animal for my child.
    B(shop clerk): Let me check. Right. Didn't you get the delivery yet? It was supposed to have been delivered yesterday.
    A: Yes, I got the delivery, but it's not what I ordered........

    Why does B say like an underlined sentence above? I mean, instead of the original sentence, what about saying like this-'It was supposed to be delivered yesterday'?

    I just want to know the difference in meaning, or usage between 'to(infinite) verb' and 'to have p.p(present perfect form)'.

    p.s. I wonder if my question is clear enough. Please understand my poor English, and let me know if you are not sure of what my question is about.

    Anyway, thank you so much for your great help in advance!
    In 'it was supposed to be delivered' delivery is understood as a perspective action.
    In 'it was supposed to have been delivered' delivery is understood as a retrospective action.

    I think in your context the perfect infinitive 'to have been delivered' is appropriate.

  1. Soup's Avatar
    • Member Info
      • Member Type:
      • English Teacher
      • Native Language:
      • English
      • Home Country:
      • Canada
      • Current Location:
      • China

    • Join Date: Sep 2007
    • Posts: 5,892
    • Post Thanks / Like
    #4

    Re: to have been delivered?

    In addition, there is a slight difference in meaning:

    Presumption
    Ex: It was supposed to have been delivered / was believe to have been delivered, but wasn't
    Ex: Max was supposed to have been rude to Pat / was believed to have been rude, but wasn't.

    Required or under orders
    Ex: It was supposed to be delivered, but wasn't / *was believed to be delivered.
    Ex: Max was supposed to be rude to Pat; we told him to do it, but he wouldn't / *was believed to be rude.

    Note, I've used the symbol * to show that the phrases marked so express an awkward meaning. That is, 'supposed to' meaning required can't at the same time also mean believed.

    Last edited by Soup; 24-May-2008 at 08:54.


    • Join Date: Apr 2008
    • Posts: 1,571
    • Post Thanks / Like
    #5

    Re: to have been delivered?

    By saying 'to have been delivered' the shop clerk gives the customer to understand that he takes his words (that the goods weren't delivered) for granted. 'To be delivered' would just mean 'we planned to deliver them'.

    Soup, could you take a look at my post 'surrounded by vs. with' on the General Language Discussions forum. I'm very interested to hear your opinion.

  2. Soup's Avatar
    • Member Info
      • Member Type:
      • English Teacher
      • Native Language:
      • English
      • Home Country:
      • Canada
      • Current Location:
      • China

    • Join Date: Sep 2007
    • Posts: 5,892
    • Post Thanks / Like
    #6

    Re: to have been delivered?

    Quote Originally Posted by Clark View Post
    By saying 'to have been delivered' the shop clerk gives the customer to understand that he takes his words (that the goods weren't delivered) for granted. 'To be delivered' would just mean 'we planned to deliver them'.

    Soup, could you take a look at my post 'surrounded by vs. with' on the General Language Discussions forum. I'm very interested to hear your opinion.
    Sure. What's the link? (Psst. PM me next time ).

Similar Threads

  1. cc: hand delivered?
    By Unregistered in forum Ask a Teacher
    Replies: 2
    Last Post: 26-Sep-2007, 21:22
  2. Is a lecture delivered?
    By Englishlanguage in forum Ask a Teacher
    Replies: 13
    Last Post: 06-Jul-2007, 15:26
  3. Is the verb FANCY used in AmE?
    By retro in forum Ask a Teacher
    Replies: 9
    Last Post: 25-Sep-2006, 17:37
  4. Help me to learn grammer
    By Mohsin in forum Ask a Teacher
    Replies: 1
    Last Post: 17-Sep-2005, 08:33
  5. What does this mean?
    By Anonymous in forum Ask a Teacher
    Replies: 24
    Last Post: 17-Mar-2004, 09:25

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •