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Thread: neither

  1. #11
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    Re: neither

    Quote Originally Posted by Dany
    Quote Originally Posted by Casiopea

    EX: Neither of the children want to go to school. (OK)
    EX: Neither of the children wants to go to school. (OK)
    Hello Casiopea,

    So I was still right? :D
    Is there any difference between your last two examples?

    I have also looked in one of my books. There was a sentence like that, and it was used with 's'. Before reading it I was sure I didn't have to use 's', but now, after reading it, I'm really uncertain.

    Because of your source , I am no longer sure. :(

    Dany
    According to Bartleby, the source, a plural verb is often used with neither of (plural noun), which isn't to say that a singular verb isn't used in that context or for that matter ungrammatical if used in that context. It's just that 'want' is used more often than 'wants'. In other words, speakers tend to view 'children' as the subject. Be it erroneous or not, Bartelby, which is a great source, doesn't seem to know either why speakers make that choice, so we are in good company. Maybe X Mode will have something to add. :D

    All the best, :D

  2. #12
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    Re: neither

    Quote Originally Posted by Casiopea
    Quote Originally Posted by Dany
    Quote Originally Posted by Casiopea

    EX: Neither of the children want to go to school. (OK)
    EX: Neither of the children wants to go to school. (OK)
    Hello Casiopea,

    So I was still right? :D
    Is there any difference between your last two examples?

    I have also looked in one of my books. There was a sentence like that, and it was used with 's'. Before reading it I was sure I didn't have to use 's', but now, after reading it, I'm really uncertain.

    Because of your source , I am no longer sure. :(

    Dany
    According to Bartleby, the source, a plural verb is often used with neither of (plural noun), which isn't to say that a singular verb isn't used in that context or for that matter ungrammatical if used in that context. It's just that 'want' is used more often than 'wants'. In other words, speakers tend to view 'children' as the subject. Be it erroneous or not, Bartelby, which is a great source, doesn't seem to know either why speakers make that choice, so we are in good company. Maybe X Mode will have something to add. :D

    All the best, :D
    Thanks for your corrections and help.

    Kind regards,
    Dany :D

  3. #13
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    Re: neither

    You're welcome. :D

  4. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dany
    By the way.

    Can someone explain me, why I have to use 's' ???

    Thanks a lot.

    Dany
    It is because neither here is singular in nature.
    The number of children will not affect the verb!!
    Here only the singular(si)/plural(pl) state of niether counts!!
    (Below I will try to explain using my limited grammar jargons. So I may not explain too well [or may use the wrong jargon])

    Based on my observations, there is one misleading idea that some English books say:
    - if 1 thing, no -s for the verb [si verb] (eg An apple is...)
    - if more than 1 thing, add -s for the verb [pl verb] (eg Two apples are...)

    More than 1 does not automatically mean a verb needs a -s. It is only true only the noun becomes plural. The number is not necessary affect a noun's singular(si)/plural(pl) state.

    Some examples:
    - More than 1 child is playing (Although there's more than 1 child, the noun child is si. That's why we use si verb)
    - Many an apple is displayed in the market (Although there are a lot of apples, the noun of apple is si.)
    - Everyone is running in the field (Everyone should implies there are at least 2 people in the field. But since everyone is singular, that's why we use si verb)


    PS: There is a special property related to group nouns. Even if it is a singular group noun, it is ok for us to use either si/pl verb.



    After you realise this idea, you will know why:
    - neither (of the children) wants.

    It is because want refers to the noun "neither", and neither is singular in nature. We use si verb.


    This is my way to understand and generalise the rules relating to si/pl verb.
    Any comment is welcome.

  5. #15
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    What about?

    Neither the parents nor their children are attending.

    All the best, :D

  6. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by Casiopea
    What about?

    Neither the parents nor their children are attending.

    All the best, :D
    You raised a very interesting question.
    What about:
    Neither the single parent nor their children ___(be) attending.
    Neither the parents nor their own child ___(be) attending.

    All the best to you :D

  7. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by Casiopea
    What about?

    Neither the parents nor their children are attending.

    All the best, :D
    Back to your easier one.
    > Neither the parents nor their children are attending.
    I am right behind you with that.
    Here "neither" acts as a pronoun to refer to "parents or children". Since both are plural, "neither" should be a plural noun as well.

    In this case, we use plural verb.
    Any comment is welcome.

  8. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wai_Wai
    Quote Originally Posted by Casiopea
    What about?

    Neither the parents nor their children are attending.

    All the best, :D
    You raised a very interesting question.
    What about:
    Neither the single parent nor their children ___(be) attending.
    Neither the parents nor their own child ___(be) attending.

    All the best to you :D
    Neither...nor is a correlative conjunction. :wink:

  9. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wai_Wai
    Back to your easier one.

    EX: Neither the parents nor their children are attending.

    Here "neither" acts as a pronoun to refer to "parents or children". Since both are plural, "neither" should be a plural noun as well.

    In this case, we use a plural verb.
    Any comments are welcome.
    So, neither the parents nor the children mean, not one in this group (i.e., the parents) plus not one in that group (i.e., the children) are attending. In other words:

    -2 (the parents) + -2 (the children) = -4 people who are attending.

    What if we associated that concept with, say, Neither of the children are attending (i.e., None, not one or two, within this group are attending), like this,

    -2 = -2 people who are attending

    All the best, :D [/b]

  10. #20
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    > Neither of the children are attending.
    It is not correct, I'm afraid.
    It is the best to use "is" (although "are" may consider ok if informally/loosely speaking)

    See:
    - Cobuild English Usage Book
    - http://www.bartleby.com/61/41/N0054100.html
    (look at the example "Neither of the twins is...)

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