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  1. #11
    Kraken's Avatar
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    Re: could you pls. give me more notes...

    Quote Originally Posted by rj1948 View Post
    Please give me more notes about IMPERSONAL SUBJECT

    Thanks

    It rains.It thunders.
    Hereit stands for no noun.But the verb suplies the subject: the rain.
    Here it is impersonal pronoun. and rains is impersonal verb.
    Regards,
    rj1948.
    I for one think that "the rain" is not the subject of the sentence "it rains".
    It is an impersonal sentence and "It" is the word in the subject position.

  2. #12
    Clark is offline Key Member
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    Re: could you pls. give me more notes...

    Quote Originally Posted by Kraken View Post
    I for one think that "the rain" is not the subject of the sentence "it rains".
    It is an impersonal sentence and "It" is the word in the subject position.
    Certainly. 'Rain' is a predicate.

  3. #13
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    Re: could you pls. give me more notes...

    Quote Originally Posted by Clark View Post
    There is a plate on the table. ('there' is an introductory subject; 'a plate' is a notional subject)
    In your mind, is there a difference between an introductory subject, a preparatory subject, and an impersonal subject?

  4. #14
    Clark is offline Key Member
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    Re: could you pls. give me more notes...

    Quote Originally Posted by Soup View Post
    In your mind, is there a difference between an introductory subject, a preparatory subject, and an impersonal subject?
    Grammatical types of subjects:
    1. Notional and Formal
    2. a) Notional: Personal and Non-personal
    b) Formal: Impersonal and Introductory
    3. Introductory: It-subject and There-subject

    I don't use the term 'preparatory' but I guess it's the same as 'introductory'.
    Impersonal is different from introductory. I illustrated this difference in my post above in this thread.
    We can further speak on the difference between introductory it-subject and introductory there-subject.

  5. #15
    Soup's Avatar
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    Re: could you pls. give me more notes...

    Quote Originally Posted by Clark View Post
    Impersonal is different from introductory. I illustrated this difference in my post above in this thread.
    We can further speak on the difference between introductory it-subject and introductory there-subject.
    Yes. I would like that, and I've provided a portion of the post in question here:

    Quote Originally Posted by Clark
    In sentences with an introductory subject, there is also a notional subject.

    e.g. It is easy to understand it. ('it' is an introductory subject; 'to understand' is a notional subject)

    There is a plate on the table. ('there' is an introductory subject; 'a plate' is a notional subject)
    How do you determine whether there is introductory or impersonal (e.g., there is a man)?

  6. #16
    Clark is offline Key Member
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    Re: could you pls. give me more notes...

    Quote Originally Posted by Soup View Post
    Yes. I would like that, and I've provided a portion of the post in question here:

    How do you determine whether there is introductory or impersonal (e.g., there is a man)?
    'There' when used as a formal subject is always introductory. It serves to introduce a notional subject. In your sentence the notional subject is 'man'. The predicate is 'is' which has an existential meaning in this type of structures. I believe it combines the semantic feature of existence and that of location. Objects can exist only somewhere, in some space. As the ancient Greek proved they can't exist nowhere. If there is no locative in the sentence in an explicit form, it's implied: 'There is also his son to be considered'. The space is - the matter they are discussing. (Space is not necessarily physical)

  7. #17
    Soup's Avatar
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    Re: could you pls. give me more notes...

    OK. So, there is a man over there is an example of an introductory subject, a.k.a. expletive, empty subject, preparatory subject, right?

    Let's go back to impersonal subjects. How does the following (common) argument sit with you? It is raining = The weather is raining.

  8. #18
    Clark is offline Key Member
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    Re: could you pls. give me more notes...

    Quote Originally Posted by Soup View Post
    OK. So, there is a man over there is an example of an introductory subject, a.k.a. expletive, empty subject, preparatory subject, right?

    Let's go back to impersonal subjects. How does the following (common) argument sit with you? It is raining = The weather is raining.

    I think these are totally different structures. This substitution is totally artificial. 'It' is called impersonal because it suggets that there can be no doer of the action. How would you interprete then other impersonal sentences: 'It is summer' or 'It is me' or 'It is time'?

  9. #19
    Soup's Avatar
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    Re: could you pls. give me more notes...

    Quote Originally Posted by Clark View Post
    How would you interprete then other impersonal sentences: 'It is summer' or 'It is me' or 'It is time'?
    Wouldn't know, but I'm sure the people who subscribe to the argument weather = it will find a way.

  10. #20
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    Re: could you pls. give me more notes...

    Quote Originally Posted by Soup View Post
    Wouldn't know, but I'm sure the people who subscribe to the argument weather = it will find a way.
    An exercise in absurdity.
    The time of year we are in now is summer.
    The unidentified object at the door is me.
    The combination of hands on the face of the clock is 6:00 a.m.

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