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  1. #11
    riverkid is offline Banned
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    Default Re: It's time we went home? or,It's time we should go home?

    Quote Originally Posted by registered View Post
    see the title.
    There is a multiple choice as follow,
    After a whole day of hard work I'm very tired. It's time we _____ home.
    A) go B) shall C) went D) should go
    the answer is C.
    But I think C and D are both right.
    Is D correct here? If not, could you give me the reason? THANKS
    By far the most likely choice is C) went. A) is a possibility, an somewhat uncommon one, but a possibility.

    What does 'went' mean and why is it most often chosen?

    Because, as a past tense FORM, it distances things which makes the speaker's suggestion seem not so demanding. Though it is a past tense, it is only a past tense in FORM. It doesn't make any reference to any finished/past actions.

    Past tense FORMS are used in English to be more deferential, more polite, more unassuming, less demanding.

    "I was wondering ..." is another past tense FORM that we use for this same purpose, to be more deferential, more polite, more unassuming, less demanding. <I'm wondering ...> is more 'in your face', more demanding, more accusative, more, well you see what I'm getting at.

    Since this is a collocation "dedicated" to politeness/deference, it's natural that it's the one most commonly heard.

    Even D), is used on occasion.

    Results 1 - 10 of about 604 English pages for "it's time we should".
    Last edited by riverkid; 13-Jun-2008 at 18:57.

  2. #12
    Clark is offline Key Member
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    Default Re: It's time we went home? or,It's time we should go home?

    Quote Originally Posted by e2e4 View Post

    So you use so called past subjunctive of a verb. It has exactly the same form as a simple past of the verb[I]. (go, went, gone)

    to should have gone home
    to must have gone home
    to ought to have gone home etc...

    I wonder if you would find this useful.

    'Went' isn't the past but present subjunctive from 'go'. The past subjunctive is 'had gone.'

    Neither should, nor must, nor ought can be preceded by the particle 'to'.

    'Must' with a perfect infinitive does not express advice or duty. It indicates supposition. 'It must have happened = I'm sure it happened.'

  3. #13
    e2e4 is offline Senior Member
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    Default Re: It's time we went home? or,It's time we should go home?

    Quote Originally Posted by Clark View Post
    I wonder if you would find this useful.

    'Went' isn't the past but present subjunctive from 'go'. The past subjunctive is 'had gone.'

    "had gone" is a past perfect of a verb go
    and the present subjunctive is "go" (bare infinitive)
    and the past subjunctive is "went" (simple past)

    Neither should, nor must, nor ought can be preceded by the particle 'to'.

    You have excluded the main part of the sentence
    There was no any other reason for you to should have gone home.
    Form of a very complex infinitive was used.(by me)
    I might have said
    There was no any other reason for you to go home, but I wanted to emphasis the point he shouldn't have used the perfect conditional but the past subjunctive in the given sentence
    It is time I went home.
    That's all.

    'Must' with a perfect infinitive does not express advice or duty. It indicates supposition. 'It must have happened = I'm sure it happened.'
    If I quote somebody's text I qoute it right way and not wrong as you did in your last post under this topic.
    The parts of my text were tied up in a way which make confusion to a reader.

    In addition

    There are two forms of subjunctives
    present subjunctive and
    past subjunctive

    Present subjunctive has the same form as the bare infinitive.

    Past subjunctive, as I already said, has exactly the same form as the simple past.

    (There are some exceptions with the verb be, but it doesn't matter for this discussion)


    It is (high) time we went home.

    and not

    It is (high) time we had gone home. (wrong)
    Last edited by e2e4; 12-Jun-2008 at 13:08.

  4. #14
    philadelphia's Avatar
    philadelphia is offline Senior Member
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    Default Re: It's time we went home? or,It's time we should go home?

    Quote Originally Posted by registered View Post
    see the title.
    There is a multiple choice as follow,
    After a whole day of hard work I'm very tired. It's time we _____ home.
    A) go B) shall C) went D) should go
    the answer is C.
    But I think C and D are both right.
    Is D correct here? If not, could you give me the reason? THANKS
    D) It's time we should go home is quite correct, formal way to say it's time we go home. Moreover, should may imply a bit more a necessity to go home. You will find it out within books - pretty old books especially. I am reading Sherlock Holmes and I can tell you that the more used is should, in that case.

    By the way, it's time we went home is used, too. Went emphasizes upon the fact that it's time to go home as though there was something in the past which could tell you it's time you go home.

    Not a teacher though.

  5. #15
    e2e4 is offline Senior Member
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    Philadelphia what would be possible to find in a book if I wrote the novel but in English?

    In my opinion it is possible to say
    It is time we should start, go out, run etc.. but if someone or the situation ordered us to do it at that time exactly.
    So we should do something what should be done.

    It is time to go is possible to use for the situation which we did agree about, arranged or similar, to go at that time.

    But for the situation which had been given by the starter and I explained in my third last post under this topic only the past subjunctive can be used and can not be substituted with should form or any other tense aspect I think.

    So

    It's time we went home.

    With this form you emhasis you are little or too late. (It's high time we went home.)

    How to emphasis you are little or too late saying

    I should go.

    If you said It's time to go you are going right on time. you are not late anyway.

  6. #16
    SUDHKAMP's Avatar
    SUDHKAMP is offline VIP Member
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    Default Re: It's time we went home? or,It's time we should go home?

    I think you must study the relation between:
    Will>would and shall>should

    Where will says that there is determination in the statement and is Future Perfect, shall says an inclination to do something but not a determination in the statement(just and intent)
    Ex. I will stop smoking. (determination)
    I would stop smoking(an action definitely to be taken in future)

    I shall stop smoking(an intent to stop smoking)
    I should stop smoking(a conclusion but not a definite intent)

    So, while asking we should go home is more enquiry than an intent.

  7. #17
    rj1948 is offline Senior Member
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    Default Re: It's time we went home? or,It's time we should go home?

    No amount of reasoning would help
    .
    As in my post#2,
    'It's time we went home' is an idiom and the reason for 'WENT'is not known.
    It may be a response of an irritated person.I do not know.This is in usage for a quite long time.

    REGARDS,
    RJ1948.
    Last edited by rj1948; 12-Jun-2008 at 13:41. Reason: typo

  8. #18
    e2e4 is offline Senior Member
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    Seems as though a teacher's opinion (authority) is needed about the matter because you do not believe me.

    I might have made some gramatical mistakes in my sentences (I always do) but I've explained the matter well enough I think.

    One more time

    It is time I went home. (a phrase with the past subjunctive in it, to say I am late.)

    Last edited by e2e4; 12-Jun-2008 at 16:16.

  9. #19
    Clark is offline Key Member
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    Default Re: It's time we went home? or,It's time we should go home?

    Mr e2e4,
    I hope you'll enjoy my answer.

    1. When I say 'It is time I went home', I'm thinking not about the past but the present. If I wanted to think about the past, I would say 'It was time I went home.'

    2. Subjunctive forms are not about the present or past but about simultaneity and priority, i.e. the time of the action is understood relatively, with regard to the action expressed by the Indicative Mood.

    e.g. I wish I knew that.
    'Knew' here is a present subjunctive form expressing a hypothetical situation that could take place in the present, simultaneous with the action expressed by 'wish'.

    e.g. I wish I had known that.
    'Had known' is a past subjunctive form expressing a hypothetical situation that could have taken place in the past, prior to the action expressed by the verb 'wish'.

    3. The Subjunctive Mood doesn't have finite forms (like past simple, past perfect, etc). These are the forms within the Indicative Mood.
    In 'It is time I went home', 'went' is a present subjunctive form which is identical with the past simple tense.

    4. In sentences like 'It's necessary that he go shopping, 'go' is not present subjunctive but the plain stem of the verb 'to go' (a survival of the old Subjunctive Mood).

    5. 'For you to should have done' is ungrammatical no matter how you arrange words around it in a sentence.

    6. I'm somewhat confused with how you use grammar terms: '... very complex infinitive ...' or 'perfect conditional ...'. Should I understand them as 'an infinitive complex' and 'perfect infinitive' respectively?

    7. Nothing personal. We are just discussing English grammar.

    Rgds

  10. #20
    rj1948 is offline Senior Member
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    Default Re: It's time we went home? or,It's time we should go home?

    see:http://aswers.yahoo.com/quesyions/in...8061335AAAZZYZ
    It's time,you went to bed:It's an idiom used in England.
    Why past tense:We don't know.This is what I posted in #2
    Regards,rj1948.
    Google search:It's tme we went home.
    yahoo search;IT'S TIME WE WENT HOME.
    anawers.com:it's time we went
    Last edited by rj1948; 12-Jun-2008 at 17:22.

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