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  1. #31
    Clark is offline Key Member
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    Default Re: It's time we went home? or,It's time we should go home?

    Hi Riverkid,

    As is known, in the older periods English used to be a synthetic language, and its subjunctive forms were built up synthetically, by means of inflections. If you are talking about those forms, I agree with you - they are 'almost extinct in English.' But the fact is that the place of the old subjunctive forms has been taken by analytical forms in present-day English. They serve the same purpose - they represent an action as hypothetical, and you can hardly include them in the same group together with the indicative mood forms.
    e.g. If I had known her better, I wouldn't have talked to her.
    Isn't 'had known' an unreal action here? So why do you object to labelling it as subjunctive? If it is not subjunctive then which mood is it?

    By the way, referring to some questionable definitions taken from sources full of dogmas can hardly be regarded as a convincing argument in a scientific discussion.

    As for your reasoning on what ESL students should or should not learn, I am leaving it without any comment as it is irrelevant to the subject in question.

    Rgds
    .......

  2. #32
    rj1948 is offline Senior Member
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    Default Re: It's time we went home? or,It's time we should go home?

    It's time we went home.Many interpretations and discussions on this sentence but no clarity.
    It is simple present tense.A parent may say to a child,"It's time you went to bed"which means,"I want you to go to bed."
    If a person looks at his watch and says,"It's time I went" he means he wants to go.It is as simple as that.I'm clear it's not subjunctive form of the verb that indicates imaginary situations.
    Regards,
    rj1948.

  3. #33
    Soup's Avatar
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    Default Re: It's time we went home? or,It's time we should go home?

    Quote Originally Posted by rj1948 View Post
    It's time we went home. /.../ It is simple present tense.
    Yes, and no.
    “It is time we went home” is the correct sentence. After the expression “It's time”, “would rather” and “wish”, followed by a subject, we can use the past tense with present or future meanings.

    Is ‘sky juice’ right?

  4. #34
    Clark is offline Key Member
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    Default Re: It's time we went home? or,It's time we should go home?

    Quote Originally Posted by rj1948 View Post
    It's time we went home.Many interpretations and discussions on this sentence but no clarity.
    It is simple present tense.A parent may say to a child,"It's time you went to bed"which means,"I want you to go to bed."
    If a person looks at his watch and says,"It's time I went" he means he wants to go.It is as simple as that.I'm clear it's not subjunctive form of the verb that indicates imaginary situations.
    Regards,
    rj1948.
    The fact that an action refers to the present does not necessarily mean that it is expressed by the simple present tense. By the way, 'went' is not the present but the past form of 'go'. As for your interpretation 'I want you to go to bed' which you give as a proof of the indicative mood form, here is an alternative variant:
    You would do the right thing if you went to bed now.
    where 'went' is the present subjunctive form of the the verb 'go'.

  5. #35
    Soup's Avatar
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    Default Re: It's time we went home? or,It's time we should go home?

    Quote Originally Posted by Clark View Post
    You would do the right thing if you went to bed now.
    where 'went' is the present subjunctive form of the the verb 'go'.
    ... if you were to go = if you went

  6. #36
    Clark is offline Key Member
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    Default Re: It's time we went home? or,It's time we should go home?

    Quote Originally Posted by Soup View Post
    ... if you were to go = if you went
    Yes, indeed. This form of the modal 'to be' has a definite future reference in conditional sentences and helps to avoid ambiguity.

  7. #37
    rj1948 is offline Senior Member
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    Default Re: It's time we went home? or,It's time we should go home?

    Quote Originally Posted by Soup View Post
    Yes, and no.
    “It is time we went home” is the correct sentence. After the expression “It's time”, “would rather” and “wish”, followed by a subject, we can use the past tense with present or future meanings.

    Is ‘sky juice’ right?
    Many a times,I wondered at your resourcefulness.Still I do.But I never expected that you would quote an obscure site to prove your point.In one of my previous posts,I have given a few sites.Have you seen those?I think there is difference between 'It's time we went ' and 'It's time we should go'
    Kindly see:http://answers.yahoo.com/questions/i...8061335AAAZZYZ
    Answers.com - Online Dictionary, Encyclopedia and much more
    BBC Learning English | Home page
    Regards,
    rj1948.
    Last edited by rj1948; 19-Jun-2008 at 05:24. Reason: typo

  8. #38
    Soup's Avatar
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    Default Re: It's time we went home? or,It's time we should go home?

    Quote Originally Posted by rj1948 View Post
    I think there is difference between 'It's time we went ' and 'It's time we should go'
    Kindly see:http://answers.yahoo.com/questions/i...8061335AAAZZYZ
    Answers.com - Online Dictionary, Encyclopedia and much more
    BBC Learning English | Home page
    Regards,
    rj1948.
    Thank you, but I would rather spend my time here learning about what you think. What is your opinion, and why? Sources are not the be all and end all of truth. There is no such thing as the truth. It is argument that makes it so. Argue your case, please.

  9. #39
    rj1948 is offline Senior Member
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    Default Re: It's time we went home? or,It's time we should go home?

    Quote Originally Posted by Soup View Post
    Thank you, but I would rather spend my time here learning about what you think. What is your opinion, and why? Sources are not the be all and end all of truth. There is no such thing as the truth. It is argument that makes it so. Argue your case, please.
    I'm not now in to enter into an arguement.I had better leave it as it is.
    Regards,
    rj1948.

  10. #40
    Soup's Avatar
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    Default Re: It's time we went home? or,It's time we should go home?

    Quote Originally Posted by rj1948 View Post
    I'm not now in to enter into an arguement.I had better leave it as it is.
    Regards,
    rj1948.
    Please consult your dictionary. Argument has more than one meaning:
    2. a discussion involving differing points of view; debate:
    They were deeply involved in an argument about inflation.

    3. a process of reasoning; series of reasons:
    I couldn't follow his argument.

    4. a statement, reason, or fact for or against a point:
    This is a strong argument in favor of her theory.

    5. an address or composition intended to convince or persuade; persuasive discourse.

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