"It's time we went home?" or "It's time we should go home?"

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venkatasu

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I don't think it's incorrect either. Though rather infrequent. It looks 'should' has some weak modal meaning here.
How would you say a weak modal meaning here
 

venkatasu

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see the title.
There is a multiple choice as follows,
After a whole day of hard work I'm very tired. It's time we _____ home.
A) go B) shall C) went D) should go
the answer is C.
But I think C and D are both right.
Is D correct here? If not, could you give me the reason? THANKS

What most of us have forgotten or ignored is , the thread srarter's question.(Kindly see above).
The correct choice is went.
He asks why not should go.
As suggested by many,if the examinee chooses should go instead of went,will he be awrded positive marking?
I have seen this type of question many times and the answer is the past form of the verb.Kindly see my post #2.
On seeing this , if many students take should go as correct answer,
and answers so in a test,will they not be penalised for no fault of theirs.

I have cited three websites in which the usage of "IT'S TIME WE WENT HOME is discussed.Kindly see them.May I give one more situation?
When an irritated teacher tells a student"It's time you learnt maths,"does he mean that the student sould learn maths?
During a conversation,If a person looks at his watch and says,"It's time, I went home.'Do we mean that the decision was taken for a future action?
It's time we went is different from It's time we should go.ALBEIT VERY SLIGHTLY.
Regards,
rj1948.
Kindly close this thread.
I THINK YOU SHOULD NOT GO. PLEASE PROCEED WITH THE DISCUSSION. LIFE IS LIKE THAT. PLS DON'T GET DEJECTED:-o
 

venkatasu

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Dear members,

Original thread

There is a multiple choice as follow,
After a whole day of hard work I'm very tired. It's time we _____ home.
A) go B) shall C) went D) should go
the answer is C.
But I think C and D are both right.
Is D correct here? If not, could you give me the reason?


------------------------------
Now, I request the members to

refer post #3 by HOTMETAL

(not a teacher)

As you say, the answer is C. That is a very well used phrase.

I can't quite give a concrete rule why D is wrong, (should g0) but it is. I have never heard it in 39 years.
"It's time we should go home" just doesn't sound right. I think it's because by saying "It IS time…" that is a concrete statement which doesn't go with the "should". "Should" infers that there might be a "…but" coming.

I'm tired. It IS time we went home. [OR]
I'm tired. We should go home (we ought to, suggestion).

Hope that helps even though I'm not 100% clear on the reasons or grammatical rules.

Just seen rj1948's reason: It's an idiom, the reason is not known.
That's what I was trying to say, thanks!!

refer post #7

WOULD no body use "it is time ...should do" anywhere? NO
PS. Can I change the sentence It's time we went home into It's time to go home?
Are these two sentences the same?

"It's time we went home" and "It's time to go home" are very similar, but there is a subtle difference. "It's time we went home" is a standard phrase more likely to be used by someone who is irritated and wants to go. "It's time to go home" is more neutral, it is a statement of fact. "It's past five o'clock; it's time to go home."

I have also seen websites suggested in one of the threads and from all the sites I browsed it's very clear that "it's time we went home". is a unique subjunctive usage which means that "I am going "
or "I go" . The usage which is very close to its meaning is "IT'S TIME WE SHOULD GO HOME".

This is present subjunctive and "It's time we went" means "We want to go". If a parent says, "It's time you went to bed" means he/she wants her children to go to bed.

So my inference is that the best option is "It's time we went".

regards
venkatasu

I welcome comments from other members (without dislike for non-native speakers).
 

bhaisahab

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Dear members,

Original thread

There is a multiple choice as follow,
After a whole day of hard work I'm very tired. It's time we _____ home.
A) go B) shall C) went D) should go
the answer is C.
But I think C and D are both right.
Is D correct here? If not, could you give me the reason?


------------------------------
Now, I request the members to

refer post #3 by HOTMETAL

(not a teacher)

As you say, the answer is C. That is a very well used phrase.

I can't quite give a concrete rule why D is wrong, (should g0) but it is. I have never heard it in 39 years.
"It's time we should go home" just doesn't sound right. I think it's because by saying "It IS time…" that is a concrete statement which doesn't go with the "should". "Should" infers that there might be a "…but" coming.

I'm tired. It IS time we went home. [OR]
I'm tired. We should go home (we ought to, suggestion).

Hope that helps even though I'm not 100% clear on the reasons or grammatical rules.

Just seen rj1948's reason: It's an idiom, the reason is not known.
That's what I was trying to say, thanks!!

refer post #7

WOULD no body use "it is time ...should do" anywhere? NO
PS. Can I change the sentence It's time we went home into It's time to go home?
Are these two sentences the same?

"It's time we went home" and "It's time to go home" are very similar, but there is a subtle difference. "It's time we went home" is a standard phrase more likely to be used by someone who is irritated and wants to go. "It's time to go home" is more neutral, it is a statement of fact. "It's past five o'clock; it's time to go home."

I have also seen websites suggested in one of the threads and from all the sites I browsed it's very clear that "it's time we went home". is a unique subjunctive usage which means that "I am going "
or "I go" . The usage which is very close to its meaning is "IT'S TIME WE SHOULD GO HOME".

This is present subjunctive and "It's time we went" means "We want to go". If a parent says, "It's time you went to bed" means he/she wants her children to go to bed.

So my inference is that the best option is "It's time we went".

regards
venkatasu

I welcome comments from other members (without dislike for non-native speakers).

You are right that this could be the best option in a test (probably is), but you will hear many people say "It is time (that) we should go.";-)
 

venkatasu

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You are right that this could be the best option in a test (probably is), but you will hear many people say "It is time (that) we should go.";-)
-bhaisahib

Thank you Bhai. Do other member agree with bhaisahib ?

regards
venkatasu
 

bhaisahab

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It's time, we should go home.;-)
 

Clark

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Re: It's time we went home? or,It's time we should go home?

Originally Posted by riverkid
There are many ways to express the subjunctive mood and as it happens many of them are indicative forms.



Hello again, my friend.

Yes, it does express the subjunctive mood. But it isn't a subjunctive form. Maybe we can clear this up if we refer to my example #5, which seems to have been deleted.

5. If I was Clark, I would be able to speak Russian.

'was' is not a subjunctive form yet it clearly expresses a subjunctive idea, wouldn't you agree? It expresses a meaning that is identical to,

If I were Clark, ...

Both entail that "I am not Clark". Should we call "If I was Clark" a subjunctive? The point is that, for English, the subjunctive, form wise, is no big deal. We could lose the few remaining forms and the English language and its speakers would suffer not at all.

What we couldn't afford to lose, [and of course, we shan't], is the subjunctive mood, which is expressible in many ways that aren't strictly subjunctive in form.

So while the vast majority of subjunctive forms have been lost, and likely will continue to be lost, the subjunctive mood hasn't been, and won't be lost.

riverkid wrote:
I agree. Do you consider the American Heritage Dictionary to be full of dogma?




The Earth isn't flat? :shock: Just you wait 'til I google up a few sites. I'll show you!! ;-)




Indubitably!

Hi Riverkid,

Sorry for the delay in answering your post. Here are my further comments.

1. You seem to be firm in differentiating between the subjunctive forms and the subjunctive mood. By the subjunctive forms you actually mean only those ones that go back to the old subjunctive. The subjunctive mood is, in your opinion, just an idea of a hypothetical action, which can be expressed by a variety of different means including even the lexical meaning of a verb (or have you already reconsidered your position on that issue?;-) )

2. Since a hypothetical situation can have present and past reference, do you think it would be reasonable to split the subjunctive mood into present and past subjunctive?

3. Don't you think it would be more adequate and less dogmatic to speak about old and new subjunctive forms, rather than subjunctive and non-subjunctive forms used to express the subjunctive mood?

Sincerely
Clark
 

Clark

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Re: It's time we went home? or,It's time we should go home?

4
In #19, Teacher Clark referred to 'knew' as a 'present subjunctive' and 'had knew' as a 'past subjunctive'. To be honest, I prefer the wikipedia's view, which refers to 'know' as a 'present subjunctive', 'knew' as a 'past subjunctive' and 'had known' as a 'pluperfect subjunctive'. (see this page: Subjunctive mood - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia) Although this is only a fomal problem, not a substantial one, I would like to hear some teachers' comments. I think it's helpful in communicating with teachers in future. :)

Well, 'pluperfect subjunctive' is, of course, better than nothing. However, don't you think that the term 'past subjunctive' for a hypothetical situation in the present is somewhat misguiding?
 

bhaisahab

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Dear hotmetal, if you really have never heard "It's time, we should go home." then maybe you should get out more.;-)
 

SUDHKAMP

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Dear hotmetal, if you really have never heard "It's time, we should go home." then maybe you should get out more.;-)
Bhaisahib, the party is in full swing and I do not feel like going home.
 

venkatasu

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Dear hotmetal, if you really have never heard "It's time, we should go home." then maybe you should get out more.;-)
Dear Bhaisahib,

I too haven't heard "It's time, we should go home".
Google search for "It's time, we should go home" results in none. But "Tt's time we went home" throws a few links.

venkatasu
 

Clark

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Dear Bhaisahib,

I too haven't heard "It's time, we should go home".
Google search for "It's time, we should go home" results in none. But "Tt's time we went home" throws a few links.

venkatasu

What is a language? Is it something written in a dictionary or a grammar book, or is it what people use for communication? The answer is obvious. A dictionary or a grammar book is a copy, though a systematic one, but the original is the spoken language. I think we can argue with native speakers on how to better describe the language system, but not on how they should use it.
 

venkatasu

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What is a language? Is it something written in a dictionary or a grammar book, or is it what people use for communication? The answer is obvious. A dictionary or a grammar book is a copy, though a systematic one, but the original is the spoken language. I think we can argue with native speakers on how to better describe the language system, but not on how they should use it.

I agree with you clark
 

Tdol

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Multiple choice quizzes can throw out false negatives where an option may be a possibility in regional, colloquial, etc, language, especially if the writer is thinking about testing a particular form. Also, the longer you discuss something, the more contexts you'll create and the greater the possibility of encompassing choices that the narrow specifics of the testing item exclude.

Having been away offline for a while, I came to this discussion rather late. The carping and bitching do make it both unpleasant and difficult to read. Could I ask everybody to please maintain a civil tone; differences of opinion about language shouldn't descend into the stuff I had to wade through in parts of this thread.

Thank you
 

MrPedantic

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1. It's time we go home.
2. It's time we went home.
3. It's time he was here.
4. It's time he were here.

Earlier in this thread I saw:

As far as I know, It’s time we go is also acceptable, but there may be a BE/AE difference in usage. If you're writing for an exam, avoid "It's time we go."

I would agree that, in BrE, "It's time" + the present subjunctive (as in #1) is at best extremely uncommon; #2 would be the dominant form.

(In fact, before I read a similar thread on another forum in which it was stated that #1 might be possible in AmE, I would have taken #1 as an error.)

Another interesting aspect of this structure: I would expect to hear #3, but not #4, in BrE. If this is generally the case, it has implications for the "subjunctive" interpretation of the structure.

Best wishes,

MrP
 

e2e4

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It's high time...;-)

:mrgreen:
 

SUDHKAMP

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During this discussion, we forgot, whose Home?
 
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