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  1. #81
    venkatasu is offline Member
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    Re: "It's time we went home?" or "It's time we should go home?"

    Quote Originally Posted by Clark View Post
    I don't think it's incorrect either. Though rather infrequent. It looks 'should' has some weak modal meaning here.
    How would you say a weak modal meaning here

  2. #82
    venkatasu is offline Member
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    Re: "It's time we went home?" or "It's time we should go home?"

    Quote Originally Posted by rj1948 View Post
    see the title.
    There is a multiple choice as follows,
    After a whole day of hard work I'm very tired. It's time we _____ home.
    A) go B) shall C) went D) should go
    the answer is C.
    But I think C and D are both right.
    Is D correct here? If not, could you give me the reason? THANKS

    What most of us have forgotten or ignored is , the thread srarter's question.(Kindly see above).
    The correct choice is went.
    He asks why not should go.
    As suggested by many,if the examinee chooses should go instead of went,will he be awrded positive marking?
    I have seen this type of question many times and the answer is the past form of the verb.Kindly see my post #2.
    On seeing this , if many students take should go as correct answer,
    and answers so in a test,will they not be penalised for no fault of theirs.

    I have cited three websites in which the usage of "IT'S TIME WE WENT HOME is discussed.Kindly see them.May I give one more situation?
    When an irritated teacher tells a student"It's time you learnt maths,"does he mean that the student sould learn maths?
    During a conversation,If a person looks at his watch and says,"It's time, I went home.'Do we mean that the decision was taken for a future action?
    It's time we went is different from It's time we should go.ALBEIT VERY SLIGHTLY.
    Regards,
    rj1948.
    Kindly close this thread.
    I THINK YOU SHOULD NOT GO. PLEASE PROCEED WITH THE DISCUSSION. LIFE IS LIKE THAT. PLS DON'T GET DEJECTED

  3. #83
    venkatasu is offline Member
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    Re: "It's time we went home?" or "It's time we should go home?"

    Dear members,

    Original thread

    There is a multiple choice as follow,
    After a whole day of hard work I'm very tired. It's time we _____ home.
    A) go B) shall C) went D) should go
    the answer is C.
    But I think C and D are both right.
    Is D correct here? If not, could you give me the reason?


    ------------------------------
    Now, I request the members to

    refer post #3 by HOTMETAL

    (not a teacher)

    As you say, the answer is C. That is a very well used phrase.

    I can't quite give a concrete rule why D is wrong, (should g0) but it is. I have never heard it in 39 years.
    "It's time we should go home" just doesn't sound right. I think it's because by saying "It IS time…" that is a concrete statement which doesn't go with the "should". "Should" infers that there might be a "…but" coming.

    I'm tired. It IS time we went home. [OR]
    I'm tired. We should go home (we ought to, suggestion).

    Hope that helps even though I'm not 100% clear on the reasons or grammatical rules.

    Just seen rj1948's reason: It's an idiom, the reason is not known.
    That's what I was trying to say, thanks!!

    refer post #7

    WOULD no body use "it is time ...should do" anywhere? NO
    PS. Can I change the sentence It's time we went home into It's time to go home?
    Are these two sentences the same?

    "It's time we went home" and "It's time to go home" are very similar, but there is a subtle difference. "It's time we went home" is a standard phrase more likely to be used by someone who is irritated and wants to go. "It's time to go home" is more neutral, it is a statement of fact. "It's past five o'clock; it's time to go home."

    I have also seen websites suggested in one of the threads and from all the sites I browsed it's very clear that "it's time we went home". is a unique subjunctive usage which means that "I am going "
    or "I go" . The usage which is very close to its meaning is "IT'S TIME WE SHOULD GO HOME".

    This is present subjunctive and "It's time we went" means "We want to go". If a parent says, "It's time you went to bed" means he/she wants her children to go to bed.

    So my inference is that the best option is "It's time we went".

    regards
    venkatasu

    I welcome comments from other members (without dislike for non-native speakers).

  4. #84
    bhaisahab's Avatar
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    Re: "It's time we went home?" or "It's time we should go home?"

    Quote Originally Posted by venkatasu View Post
    Dear members,

    Original thread

    There is a multiple choice as follow,
    After a whole day of hard work I'm very tired. It's time we _____ home.
    A) go B) shall C) went D) should go
    the answer is C.
    But I think C and D are both right.
    Is D correct here? If not, could you give me the reason?


    ------------------------------
    Now, I request the members to

    refer post #3 by HOTMETAL

    (not a teacher)

    As you say, the answer is C. That is a very well used phrase.

    I can't quite give a concrete rule why D is wrong, (should g0) but it is. I have never heard it in 39 years.
    "It's time we should go home" just doesn't sound right. I think it's because by saying "It IS time…" that is a concrete statement which doesn't go with the "should". "Should" infers that there might be a "…but" coming.

    I'm tired. It IS time we went home. [OR]
    I'm tired. We should go home (we ought to, suggestion).

    Hope that helps even though I'm not 100% clear on the reasons or grammatical rules.

    Just seen rj1948's reason: It's an idiom, the reason is not known.
    That's what I was trying to say, thanks!!

    refer post #7

    WOULD no body use "it is time ...should do" anywhere? NO
    PS. Can I change the sentence It's time we went home into It's time to go home?
    Are these two sentences the same?

    "It's time we went home" and "It's time to go home" are very similar, but there is a subtle difference. "It's time we went home" is a standard phrase more likely to be used by someone who is irritated and wants to go. "It's time to go home" is more neutral, it is a statement of fact. "It's past five o'clock; it's time to go home."

    I have also seen websites suggested in one of the threads and from all the sites I browsed it's very clear that "it's time we went home". is a unique subjunctive usage which means that "I am going "
    or "I go" . The usage which is very close to its meaning is "IT'S TIME WE SHOULD GO HOME".

    This is present subjunctive and "It's time we went" means "We want to go". If a parent says, "It's time you went to bed" means he/she wants her children to go to bed.

    So my inference is that the best option is "It's time we went".

    regards
    venkatasu

    I welcome comments from other members (without dislike for non-native speakers).
    You are right that this could be the best option in a test (probably is), but you will hear many people say "It is time (that) we should go."

  5. #85
    venkatasu is offline Member
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    Re: "It's time we went home?" or "It's time we should go home?"

    You are right that this could be the best option in a test (probably is), but you will hear many people say "It is time (that) we should go."
    -bhaisahib

    Thank you Bhai. Do other member agree with bhaisahib ?

    regards
    venkatasu

  6. #86
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    Re: "It's time we went home?" or "It's time we should go home?"

    It's time, we should go home.

  7. #87
    SUDHKAMP's Avatar
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    Re: "It's time we went home?" or "It's time we should go home?"

    Quote Originally Posted by bhaisahab View Post
    It's time, we should go home.
    Yes Bhaisahab, it is time we went home!

  8. #88
    venkatasu is offline Member
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    Re: "It's time we went home?" or "It's time we should go home?"

    Quote Originally Posted by SUDHKAMP View Post
    Yes Bhaisahab, it is time we went home!
    Baisahib now sudhkamp next ?

  9. #89
    Clark is offline Key Member
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    Re: It's time we went home? or,It's time we should go home?

    Quote Originally Posted by riverkid View Post
    Originally Posted by riverkid
    There are many ways to express the subjunctive mood and as it happens many of them are indicative forms.



    Hello again, my friend.

    Yes, it does express the subjunctive mood. But it isn't a subjunctive form. Maybe we can clear this up if we refer to my example #5, which seems to have been deleted.

    5. If I was Clark, I would be able to speak Russian.

    'was' is not a subjunctive form yet it clearly expresses a subjunctive idea, wouldn't you agree? It expresses a meaning that is identical to,

    If I were Clark, ...

    Both entail that "I am not Clark". Should we call "If I was Clark" a subjunctive? The point is that, for English, the subjunctive, form wise, is no big deal. We could lose the few remaining forms and the English language and its speakers would suffer not at all.

    What we couldn't afford to lose, [and of course, we shan't], is the subjunctive mood, which is expressible in many ways that aren't strictly subjunctive in form.

    So while the vast majority of subjunctive forms have been lost, and likely will continue to be lost, the subjunctive mood hasn't been, and won't be lost.

    riverkid wrote:
    I agree. Do you consider the American Heritage Dictionary to be full of dogma?




    The Earth isn't flat? Just you wait 'til I google up a few sites. I'll show you!!




    Indubitably!
    Hi Riverkid,

    Sorry for the delay in answering your post. Here are my further comments.

    1. You seem to be firm in differentiating between the subjunctive forms and the subjunctive mood. By the subjunctive forms you actually mean only those ones that go back to the old subjunctive. The subjunctive mood is, in your opinion, just an idea of a hypothetical action, which can be expressed by a variety of different means including even the lexical meaning of a verb (or have you already reconsidered your position on that issue? )

    2. Since a hypothetical situation can have present and past reference, do you think it would be reasonable to split the subjunctive mood into present and past subjunctive?

    3. Don't you think it would be more adequate and less dogmatic to speak about old and new subjunctive forms, rather than subjunctive and non-subjunctive forms used to express the subjunctive mood?

    Sincerely
    Clark

  10. #90
    Clark is offline Key Member
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    Re: It's time we went home? or,It's time we should go home?

    Quote Originally Posted by enydia View Post
    4
    In #19, Teacher Clark referred to 'knew' as a 'present subjunctive' and 'had knew' as a 'past subjunctive'. To be honest, I prefer the wikipedia's view, which refers to 'know' as a 'present subjunctive', 'knew' as a 'past subjunctive' and 'had known' as a 'pluperfect subjunctive'. (see this page: Subjunctive mood - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia) Although this is only a fomal problem, not a substantial one, I would like to hear some teachers' comments. I think it's helpful in communicating with teachers in future. :)
    Well, 'pluperfect subjunctive' is, of course, better than nothing. However, don't you think that the term 'past subjunctive' for a hypothetical situation in the present is somewhat misguiding?

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