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  1. tzfujimino's Avatar
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    #11

    Re: How do you analyze a complex sentence?

    Quote Originally Posted by whitemoon View Post
    "That you should say so suprises me."
    How do you analyze the above complex sentence?
    Hi, whitemoon!

    I think they(native speakers) would probably say, in their daily conversations, 'It surprises me that you should say so.' or 'It is surprising that you should say so.'

    So...my guess is...the clause in bold is a noun clause. It has the same function as...say,..

    I know that you've done a great job.

    I wouldn't say it's a relative clause. I agree with Soup's suggestion that it is elliptical ; (the fact) that...
    I have no idea whatsoever how to analyze it, but this is how I see it.

    I'm not a native speaker of English.
    Please forgive me if I'm wrong.

  2. whitemoon's Avatar
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    #12

    Re: How do you analyze a complex sentence?

    Quote Originally Posted by Raymott View Post
    What do you mean by "analyze"? Do you want each word and phrase labelled with a part of speech?
    I want to know which is the main clause and which is the subordinate clause.

  3. Raymott's Avatar
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    #13

    Re: How do you analyze a complex sentence?

    Quote Originally Posted by whitemoon View Post
    I want to know which is the main clause and which is the subordinate clause.
    Ah, the old argument come up again! I'll stay out of it this time.
    I really hope you get your answer!

  4. Soup's Avatar
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    #14

    Re: How do you analyze a complex sentence?

    Quote Originally Posted by whitemoon View Post
    How do you think?

    I want to know which is the main clause and which is the subordinate clause.
    There are three kinds of subordinate clauses: the noun clause, the adjective clause, and the adverb clause. A noun clause is a subordinate clause which does the work of a noun in a complex sentence. It can be:
    The subject of a verb
    Ex: That you should say so surprises me.

    The object of a transitive verb
    Ex: He says that he won't go.

    The object of a preposition
    Ex: Pay careful attention to what I am going to say.

    In opposition to a noun or pronoun
    Ex: Your statement that you found the money in the street will not be believed.

    The complement of a verb of incomplete predication
    Ex: This is where I live.

    Source
    The fact + that noun clauses as subject of a verb:

    (The fact) that secondhand smoke can cause serious health problems has been shown by several studies.

    (The fact) that she refused the money showed her sense of pride.

    Source


    Sentence interpretations:

    1. That you should say so surprises me.
    => the entire that-clause is the subject of the sentence.

    Instead of that we can also use the fact that, the idea that.

    2. (The fact) that you should say so surprises me.
    => The entire the fact that-clause is the subject of the sentence.


    However, if the subject is too long, it may be difficult for the reader to understand the sentence. To solve this problem, we use the introductory it, which takes the position of the subject in the sentence and signals that a noun clause is to follow. For example,

    That you should say so surprises me.
    It surprises me that you should say so.

    Note that this pattern can be used only with that but not with the idea that / the fact that.

    Source



    Read more about "pre-predicate" noun clauses here http://thegrammarexchange.infopop.cc...9/m/5206003482

    ________________________________
    Correction

    What do you think?

  5. whitemoon's Avatar
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    #15

    Re: How do you analyze a complex sentence?

    Dear soup,
    First of all , Id like to thank you for your explanation and correction. In addition, I think you didnt mention what I want.
    I have a definition of a complex sentence:(let me call a definition here)
    "A complex sentence consists of One Main Clause and One or More Subordinate Clauses."
    (From High School English Grammar & Composition by Wern and Martin)
    According to the definition, let me analyze some complex sentences:
    1. I love you because you are very beautiful.
    "I love you" is a main clause, and "because you are very beautiful" is a subordinate clause.
    2. I saw a beartiful girl who is sitting under the tree.
    "I saw a beautiful gril" is a main clause, and "who is sitting under the tree" is a subordinate clause.
    3. That you should say so surprises me.
    I can't analyze this sentence like the above two sentences. I can't show which is the main clause and which is the subordinate clause. Please help me with that problem.
    If you can't analyze that sentence like the above two sentences: (1) and (2), you are like saying that the definition of a complex sentence is worng in this case.
    Thank you very much.
    Have a good time.

  6. whitemoon's Avatar
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    #16

    Re: How do you analyze a complex sentence?

    Quote Originally Posted by Soup View Post
    There are three kinds of subordinate clauses: the noun clause, the adjective clause, and the adverb clause. A noun clause is a subordinate clause which does the work of a noun in a complex sentence. It can be:
    The subject of a verb
    Ex: That you should say so surprises me.
    (I can't analyze.)
    The object of a transitive verb
    Ex: He says that he won't go.
    ("He says" is a main clause and "that he won't go" is a subordinate clause.)

    The object of a preposition
    Ex: Pay careful attention to what I am going to say.
    (I can't do.)
    In opposition to a noun or pronoun
    Ex: Your statement that you found the money in the street will not be believed.
    ("Your statement will not be believed" is a main clause and "that you found the money in the street" is a subordinate clause.)
    The complement of a verb of incomplete predication
    Ex: This is where I live.
    (I can't do.)
    Source
    The fact + that noun clauses as subject of a verb:

    (The fact) that secondhand smoke can cause serious health problems has been shown by several studies.
    ("The fact has been shown by several studies" is a main clause and "that secondhand smoke can cause serious health problems" is a subordinate clause.)
    (The fact) that she refused the money showed her sense of pride.
    ("The fact showed her sense of pride" is a main clause and "that she refused the money" is a subordinate clause.)
    Source


    Sentence interpretations:

    1. That you should say so surprises me.
    => the entire that-clause is the subject of the sentence.
    (I can't do.)
    Instead of that we can also use the fact that, the idea that.

    2. (The fact) that you should say so surprises me.
    => The entire the fact that-clause is the subject of the sentence.
    ("The fact surprises me" is a main clause and "that you should say so" is a subordinate clause.)

    However, if the subject is too long, it may be difficult for the reader to understand the sentence. To solve this problem, we use the introductory it, which takes the position of the subject in the sentence and signals that a noun clause is to follow. For example,

    That you should say so surprises me.
    It surprises me that you should say so.
    (Are they same? I don't think so.)
    Note that this pattern can be used only with that but not with the idea that / the fact that.

    Source



    Read more about "pre-predicate" noun clauses here Noun clauses beginning with "that" in subject postion - Topic Powered by eve community

    ________________________________
    Correction

    What do you think?
    Thank you!

  7. whitemoon's Avatar
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    #17

    Re: How do you analyze a complex sentence?

    Quote Originally Posted by tzfujimino View Post
    Hi, whitemoon!

    I think they(native speakers) would probably say, in their daily conversations, 'It surprises me that you should say so.' or 'It is surprising that you should say so.'
    (I can analyze this sentences. "It surprises me" is a main clause and "that you should say so" is a subordinate clause."It is surprising" is a main clause and "that you should say so" is a subordinate clause.)
    So...my guess is...the clause in bold is a noun clause. It has the same function as...say,..

    I know that you've done a great job.
    ("I know" is a main clause and "that you've done a great job" is a subordinate clause.)

    I wouldn't say it's a relative clause. I agree with Soup's suggestion that it is elliptical ; (the fact) that...
    I have no idea whatsoever how to analyze it, but this is how I see it.

    I'm not a native speaker of English.
    Please forgive me if I'm wrong.
    Please try to analyze this sentence.
    What he said was true.
    A complex sentence consists of one Main clause and one or more Subordinate Clauses.(From High School English Grammar & Composition by Wern and Martin)
    If you can't analyze the above sentence, you are like saying that the definition of a complex sentence is wrong in this case.(Let me call a definition here.)
    Have a good time!

  8. Soup's Avatar
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    #18

    Re: How do you analyze a complex sentence?

    Whitemoon, the main clauses are underlined and the subordinate clauses are in bold.

    1. I love you because you are very beautiful.
    => Notice that if we omit because we are left with two complete sentences:
    a. I love you.
    b. You are very beautiful.
    Above, each clause has a subject-verb pair; two subjects and two verbs.


    2. I saw a beautiful girl who was sitting under the tree.
    => Notice that who replaces a beautiful girl, and so by replacement we can get two complete sentences:
    a. I saw a beautiful girl.
    b. A beautiful girl was sitting under the tree.
    Above, each clause has a subject-verb pair: there are two subjects and two verbs.


    The following example sentence also houses two subject-verb pairs, but one of the subject-verb pairs is embedded in the subject of the other subject-verb pair, which means this is and cannot be a complex sentence:

    3. That you should say so surprises me.
    Subject: That you should say so
    Verb: surprises

    Subject: you
    Verb: should
    Sentence 3. is an example of a simplex sentence (SVO) that happens to house a clause as its subject. Now, if it were complex, we would be able to get two complete sentences out of it, wouldn't we? But we can't:
    a. You should say so. <a complete clause>
    b. *Surpises me. <fragment: no subject>
    Here's how it breaks down:

    Subject: (The fact)that you should say so
    Verb: surprises
    Object: me

    The subject is an elliptical noun clause, the head of which; i.e., the fact, is elided, but its relative that is overt.

    To diagram that sentence,

    IP branches into IP (that you should say that) and VP (surprises me)
    VP branches intoV (surprises) and NP (me)


    If you have an linguistic argument to show that example 3 is complex, I'd like to see it. As it stands, your subordinating clause is a subject, nothing more:

    1. I love you because you are very beautiful. <FUNCTION: conjunction>
    2. I saw a beautiful girl who was sitting under the tree. <FUNCTION: modification>
    3. That you should say so surprises me. <FUNCTION: subject>

  9. Soup's Avatar
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    #19

    Re: How do you analyze a complex sentence?

    Quote Originally Posted by whitemoon View Post
    Please try to analyze this sentence. What he said was true.
    Subject: What he said
    Verb: was
    Predicate adjecitive: true

    ___________________
    Note, ellipsis:

    What he said could, for example, have been, "I love you."

    Ex: The statement "I love you" (which is what he said) was true.

    Notice that what is referential, and moreover the phrase what he said part of a bigger structure. We could just as well rephrase it with,

    Ex: The statement was true.

    Subject: The statement
    Verb: was
    Predicate adjective: true

    In short, what he said functions as a subject. On a higher level, it sits inside a noun clause; i.e., the statment "I love you" which is what he said was true.

    __________________________
    If you get an A on this assigment, please cite us.

  10. tzfujimino's Avatar
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    #20

    Re: How do you analyze a complex sentence?

    Quote Originally Posted by whitemoon View Post
    Please try to analyze this sentence.
    What he said was true.
    A complex sentence consists of one Main clause and one or more Subordinate Clauses.(From High School English Grammar & Composition by Wern and Martin)
    If you can't analyze the above sentence, you are like saying that the definition of a complex sentence is wrong in this case.(Let me call a definition here.)
    Have a good time!
    Hi, whitemoon!
    Please see Soup's posts.
    She's done an excellent job.(if I may say so....)

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