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  1. #11
    Anglika is offline No Longer With Us
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    Default Re: Modern Gallantry By Charles Lamb

    You could well be right - I was being too literal in thinking of his writing.

  2. #12
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    Smile Re: Modern Gallantry By Charles Lamb

    Re: Post 10

    Hello BobK,

    Thank you for your comment.

    The older a text is, the more likely it is that a familiar-looking word will have changed its meaning.
    It's same in the Chinese language.
    Last edited by thedaffodils; 13-Aug-2008 at 13:44. Reason: added 'the' before 'Chinese language'

  3. #13
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    Smile Re: Modern Gallantry By Charles Lamb

    Joseph Paice, of Bread-street-hill, merchant, and one of the Directors of the South-Sea company -- the same to whom Edwards, the Shakspeare commentator, has addressed a fine sonnet -- was the only pattern of consistent gallantry I have met with. He took me under his shelter at an early age, and bestowed some pains upon me. I owe to his precepts and example whatever there is of the man of business (and that is not much) in my composition. It was not his fault that I did not profit more. Though bred a Presbyterian, and brought up a merchant, he was the finest gentleman of his time. He had not one system of attention to females in the drawing-room, and another in the shop, or at the stall.
    Q12: Why did Lamb use the word of "though"? Were Presbyterian Church and merchant class not very recognized in Lamb's age?

    Q13: have one one syetem of attention =?

    Q14: Is the tale about Knights of Round Table very well-known in the UK and other else of native English speaking countries?

    Thanks!
    Last edited by thedaffodils; 16-Aug-2008 at 18:30. Reason: Removing an icon of eye-rolling

  4. #14
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    Default Re: Modern Gallantry By Charles Lamb

    Quote Originally Posted by thedaffodils View Post
    Q12: Why did Lamb use the word of "though"? Were Presbyterian Church and merchant class not very recognized in Lamb's age?

    Q13: have one one syetem of attention =?

    Q14: Is the tale about Knights of Round Table very well-known in the UK and other else of native English speaking countries?

    Thanks!
    Here's the part under discussion:
    Though bred a Presbyterian, and brought up a merchant, he was the finest gentleman of his time. He had not one system of attention to females in the drawing-room, and another in the shop, or at the stall.
    Q12: Presbyterians were not lavish spenders, and being a merchant was not the sort of thing a gentleman at the time did [ "did" in the prescriptive sense of behaving in the way expected of society, doing 'the done thing') . To say someone was 'in trade' was almost an insult. A gentleman had 'private means' - an income derived from his birth rather than his efforts. It was this sort of society that was so abhorrent to the Founding Fathers - who sailed to America to set up a society where what mattered was a person's efforts (the 'American Dream').

    Q13 He didn't 'switch on' one way of behaving when he was a man of trade and another when he was in society - he didn't alternate between 'Can I help you madam?' (when meeting a customer) and 'Charmed, I'm sure' (when meeting a lady). This use of 'system of attention' is very archaic; today we'd say something like 'way of acting towards people'.

    Q14 Yes, and yes. (But the second "yes" is smaller than the first! I think people in England are more aware of the legend than in, say, Australia.)

    b

  5. #15
    thedaffodils's Avatar
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    Smile Re: Modern Gallantry By Charles Lamb

    Hello BobK,

    Thank you very much for your answers.

    In China, merchants were the lowest class amongst the gentry, farmer, craftman classes during the span of more than two-thousand years of feudal society in China. This coincided with that of then England. But nowadays money talks in China.

    Now I have two questions as below. Could you please give me a hand again?

    Q15: Why merchant class was despised in Lamb's age when capitalism had been already establised? And when has the situation been changed?

    Q16: What branches are there in the world of Christanity? Generally speaking, Are they Catholic Church, Protestant Church and Orthodox Church? And does Church of England refer to Protestant Church? And Does Presbyterian Church belong to Protestant Church? What religious school did then gentlemen believe in?

    Thanks in advance!

    PS: I knew dicussions on religions are prohibited under the rules of the forums. But could you please just tell me about that in a nutshell? I won't go further about it. If it is not okay, I'll understand.
    Last edited by thedaffodils; 16-Aug-2008 at 18:27. Reason: Removing an icon of eye-rolling

  6. #16
    Anglika is offline No Longer With Us
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    Default Re: Modern Gallantry By Charles Lamb

    RE question 15 - In the early 19th century commerce was regarded as something no "gentleman" or aristocrat would undertake. Landowning was the epitome of social importance. There is still a residual disdain for those involved in commerce, but by the late 19th century the power of the fortunes earned by commercial activity bought respect in social circles, as aristocracy needed the funds to maintain their expensive estates, so married daughters of rich men. It was the second and third generations from merchant and commercial families that moved into "respectable society" .


    Re question 16 look at this site which is a comprehensive summary: FAMILIES OF CHRISTIAN SECTS AND DENOMINATIONS

  7. #17
    thedaffodils's Avatar
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    Smile Re: Modern Gallantry By Charles Lamb

    Hello Anglika,

    Thank you very much for your help.

  8. #18
    thedaffodils's Avatar
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    Smile Re: Modern Gallantry By Charles Lamb

    Could someone please answer my questions as below? Thanks in advance!


    Q17: Lamb lived between 18 and19 century, though the essay titled Modern Gallantry, it was written before more than 170 years ago. I am wondering whether today, both standard and situation of gallantry in the UK have improved or not. Could you please give me a few examples?

    I assume the cases of whipping women publicly no longer exist today in the UK.

    Q18: Is it usually adopted in the textbook of English or assigned to read by teachers? I knew American education system is decentralized so there's no identical textbook in the US. How about in the UK?

    Q19: How do kids there learn gallantry? Is there any teachings about gallantry in school?

    I wish it could be introduced to the textbook in China no matter it is a Chinese version or orginal English one.

  9. #19
    heidita's Avatar
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    Default Re: Modern Gallantry By Charles Lamb

    Quote Originally Posted by thedaffodils View Post

    I assume the cases of whipping women publicly no longer exist today in the UK.
    I am not British so cannot answer the other questions, but this one is definitely not the case any more.

    Not like in other countries, mind you....

  10. #20
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    Default Re: Modern Gallantry By Charles Lamb

    Quote Originally Posted by thedaffodils View Post
    Q17: Lamb lived between 18 and19 century, though the essay titled Modern Gallantry, it was written before more than 170 years ago. I am wondering whether today, both standard and situation of gallantry in the UK have improved or not. Could you please give me a few examples?
    It depends on what you would call gallantry then, and now. Things are certainly different; but then so are women and men.
    I assume the cases of whipping women publicly no longer exist today in the UK.
    Not anywhere in Europe. Not anywhere in Australia.
    Q18: Is it usually adopted in the textbook of English or assigned to read by teachers? I knew American education system is decentralized so there's no identical textbook in the US. How about in the UK?
    We were taught how to speak the Queen's English back then, forty-odd years ago...
    Q19: How do kids there learn gallantry? Is there any teachings about gallantry in school?
    As far as I know, they don't. They are taught good manners at home; I wouldn't be sure what children are taught at school nowadays.
    I wish it could be introduced to the textbook in China no matter it is a Chinese version or orginal English one.
    I cannot help you here...

    Oh, and at least this Aussie is quite familiar with King Arthur's legends - if only because my beloved is passionately fond of them!

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