Results 1 to 5 of 5
  1. #1
    kiranlegend is offline Member
    • Member Info
      • Member Type:
      • Student or Learner
      • Native Language:
      • Telugu
      • Home Country:
      • India
      • Current Location:
      • India
    Join Date
    Jun 2008
    Posts
    439
    Post Thanks / Like

    Default claim to have vs claim to have had and who vs whom

    In June, 1981, six teenagers in the village of Medjugorje, Yugoslavia, claimed to have had visions of the Virgin Mary, who they say has continued to appear to them over the ensuing years.
    (A) claimed to have had visions of the Virgin Mary, who
    (B) claimed to have visions of the Virgin Mary, whom
    (C) claimed to have had visions of the Virgin Mary, whom
    (D) claimed to have visions of the Virgin Mary, who
    (E) had claimed to have had visions of the Virgin Mary, whom


    Here answer choice A is correct. Could you please explain why claim to have had visions got preference over claimed to have visions and who ( nominative form) got preferrence over whom ( objective form)?

  2. #2
    Join Date
    Nov 2007
    Posts
    5,425
    Post Thanks / Like

    Default Re: claim to have vs claim to have had and who vs whom

    <.......................................PAST..........................>
    ...........|...........1981.| ...........................................NOW
    visions | make the claim.| continue to see visions

    In June, 1981, six teenagers in the village of Medjugorje, Yugoslavia, claimed to have had visions of the Virgin Mary, who they say has continued to appear to them over the ensuing years.

    'claimed' is past tense, so is a completed action in the past (1981)
    The possibilities then are:
    Six teenagers claimed to have visions of the Virgin Mary.
    Six teenagers claimed to be having visions of the Virgin Mary. - (let's leave this one and keep to the two we are concerned with.)
    Six teenagers claimed to have had visions of the Virgin Mary.
    If the author wrote, 'claimed to have' , then 'to have' is used with the meaning 'to experience" : 'claimed to experience visions'.
    Time frame: .......visions|tell people|visions continue..........The visions are an ongoing experience, starting before they told people, and continuing after.
    If the author wrote: 'claimed to have had', then adding 'had' now firmly locates the visions as occurring in the past, prior to making the claim.

    So, to this point, both are possible! Why has the author chosen (and why is the correct answer) 'claimed to have had'? What determines this is what comes next in the sentence:
    "...who they say..." : 'say' is present tense. So what comes next is a second statement/claim, made NOW, compared with 1981; and they say the Virgin Mary 'has continued to appear', after, since their first claim in 1981.
    'claimed to have had' is the correct answer because it fits with the total meaning of the sentence. The author leads us
    1. they have visions
    2. they tell people. They may hope that the visions continue, but until another one occurs, they have been prior to actually telling people - They have had visions. The author specifically locates the visions prior to when the teenagers make the claim.
    3. They are interviewed again some years later and NOW 'say' - yes, and since our first claim, the Virgin Mary has continued to appear over the period of time from 1981 to NOW.
    The author has used 1981 as a first reference point in time. He clearly separates (i) what occurred before the statement in 1981, (ii) 1981 as the year they told people (iii) whatever might come after that in the future. He then changes/moves the reference point to NOW, (when they say/make their second claim) and NOW becomes the reference point and the perspective is of looking back from NOW, to 1981 and 'the ensuing years'. That is, the second part of the sentence covers the whole period of (iii)
    It was the author who chose to make these clear separations, change the reference point from 1981, to NOW. 'have had' is therefore correct in the total context of the author's sentence.
    Diagrammatically
    'claimed to have:<....visions|1981|..................visions........ ......>NOW
    rest of sentence:................|1981|<................visions..............>NOW
    The meaning implied by 'claimed to have' overlaps with the meaning of the second part of the sentence.


    Who or Whom?
    of the Virgin Mary, who they say has continued to appear
    ...of the Virgin Mary, who has continued to appear...
    ...of the Virgin Mary, who (so they say) has continued to appear...
    Last edited by David L.; 27-Aug-2008 at 12:55.

  3. #3
    kiranlegend is offline Member
    • Member Info
      • Member Type:
      • Student or Learner
      • Native Language:
      • Telugu
      • Home Country:
      • India
      • Current Location:
      • India
    Join Date
    Jun 2008
    Posts
    439
    Post Thanks / Like

    Default Re: claim to have vs claim to have had and who vs whom

    It was a wonderful explanation. I was in awe while reading through the post.

    Thanks David:)

  4. #4
    Join Date
    Nov 2007
    Posts
    5,425
    Post Thanks / Like

    Default Re: claim to have vs claim to have had and who vs whom

    Ta very much ...but is it all clear now???
    That's a difficult sentence for a non-native speaker to grasp and my explanation was a bit involved. Don't hesitate to ask if something is still not clear.

  5. #5
    kiranlegend is offline Member
    • Member Info
      • Member Type:
      • Student or Learner
      • Native Language:
      • Telugu
      • Home Country:
      • India
      • Current Location:
      • India
    Join Date
    Jun 2008
    Posts
    439
    Post Thanks / Like

    Default Re: claim to have vs claim to have had and who vs whom

    Yeah, I can't really say (whether i will be able to use) about its application in my usages but here in this sentence. Yes! it is crystal clear:)

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •  
Hotchalk