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  1. #1
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    Question Does tense cause a change in meaning?

    Compare:
    (1)You'll have time after they've left home.
    (2)You'll have time after they leave home.


    Basically, I think they are the same. Some might not agree. What do you think?



    Best Regards,
    Blacknomi

  2. #2
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    Default Re: Does tense cause a change in meaning?

    Quote Originally Posted by blacknomi
    Compare:
    (1)You'll have time after they have left home.
    (2)You'll have time after they leave home.
    They are the same. 'after' is the reason.

    Both 'after' and the Perfect mark the order of the events, but 'after' is required as a subordinating conjunction, whereas the Perfect 'have -ed' is not required because the meaning it expresses is carried by the subordinator, and given that semantic redundancy, some speakers will omit the Perfect marking, notably 'had', which in the case of an irregular verb like 'leave, left' also involves changing to irregular form 'left' back to its regular form 'leave', and go with the Simple Present:

    Present Perfect: You will have time after they have left.
    Simple Present: You will have time after they leave.

  3. #3
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    Question Re: Does tense cause a change in meaning?

    Moshi moshi, Lady in Japan,

    I'm not 100% sure if I get your grammatical explanation. You mean the subordinating conjunction "after" carries the "perfect mark", so that the have -ed form can be omitted. I see "after" a subordinator as it is, and I would't think it has to carry the perfect meaning. Its main function and meaning is to indicate the order of two events. Here's my perception,


    [You'll have time] after [they leave home.]
    [An event] after [a general event.]


    So If I am stating a general event at present, I'll just keep the present tense in the subordinating clause. Then, the event of the main clause, occuring after a general event, is considered to be happened at a point in future. So using a future tense would make perfect sense here.


    What do you think? Cass?




    All the best,
    Blacknomi

  4. #4
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    Default Re: Does tense cause a change in meaning?

    Allow me to try again.

    1) After they leave

    The subordinator 'after' signals the first event (they leave).

    2) After they have left

    The perfect morphology 'have -t' signals the first event (they have left).

    In short,

    Both the subordinator 'After' and the perfect morphology 'have left' signal the first event. Given that (semantic) redundancy, speakers will often replace the Present Perfect with the Simple Past as a means of reducing the redundancy. So After they've left becomes After they leave, without a change in meaning. 'After' expresses the order of events.

    Personally, I prefer 2), but that's beside the point. The question was whether 1) and 2) carry the same meaning, and they do.

  5. #5
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    Default Re: Does tense cause a change in meaning?

    It's all clear. Thank you. <A BEAR HUG>

  6. #6
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    Default Re: Does tense cause a change in meaning?

    Really?
    OK.
    You're welcome.

  7. #7
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    Default Re: Does tense cause a change in meaning?

    Really!!!!!

    <Sigh> I was about to bid on priceline for 10-day stays at NYC during X'mas. But I don't think there is any chance to get the bid. Woo woo woo woo woo...

    Wish me luck!


    With eye circles,
    Blacknomi

  8. #8
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    Default Re: Does tense cause a change in meaning?

    Quote Originally Posted by blacknomi
    Really!!!!! <Sigh> I was about to bid on priceline for 10-day stays at NYC during X'mas. But I don't think there is any chance to get the bid. Woo woo woo woo woo... Wish me luck! With eye circles, Blacknomi
    Good luck! Bring along a coat.

  9. #9
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    Talking Re: Does tense cause a change in meaning?

    Thanks there.

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