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  1. #1
    thedaffodils's Avatar
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    Question Re: Rule of US Law

    I read a Chinese comment about the rule of the US law. I try to translate it from Chinese to English as below for your reference.

    There should just only a bug in the loaf. (The whole loaf will be dumped.)

    In light of the rule, if there's an evidence which has been proofed incredibly against the defendant, all the other evidences will be not adopted by the court.

    I wonder what the exact rule in English is if you can have some idea according to my words.

    Many thanks!
    Last edited by thedaffodils; 06-Dec-2008 at 02:11.

  2. #2
    Ouisch's Avatar
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    Default Re: Rule of US Law

    In the U.S., the court will allow however much incriminating evidence that is available. For example, if they have a surveillance tape that clearly shows a man shooting another, in addition to that damning evidence the prosecutor would still include fingerprint evidence and anything else he has to strengthen his case. The goal is to present an "airtight case," meaning there is absolutely no room for doubt.

    However, I'm wondering if your "one bug in the loaf, discard the whole loaf" idiom is referring to the "beyond a reasonable doubt" rule in U.S. law. That is, even if there is a lot of very convincing evidence, if there is one small piece of the puzzle that doesn't quite fit - one detail that leaves a question of guilt in the jury's mind -then the defendant will be found "not guilty." The jury is always admonished to make their decision only if they are 100% convinced of guilt, or "beyond a reasonable doubt."

  3. #3
    BobK's Avatar
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    Default Re: Rule of US Law

    I think it's 'the fruit of the poisoned tree'; but I picked this up from US courtroom dramas, so I might have misheard.

    b

  4. #4
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    Default Re: Rule of US Law

    Quote Originally Posted by BobK View Post
    I think it's 'the fruit of the poisoned tree'; but I picked this up from US courtroom dramas, so I might have misheard.

    b
    Nearly - 'poisonous:

    Fruit of the poisonous tree is a legal term in the United States used to describe evidence gathered with the aid of information obtained illegally.[1] The logic of the terminology is that if the source of the evidence (the "tree") is tainted, then anything gained from it (the "fruit") would be likewise.

    Such evidence is not generally admissible in court....
    More here: Fruit of the poisonous tree - encyclopedia article about Fruit of the poisonous tree.

    b

  5. #5
    susiedqq is offline Key Member
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    Default Re: Rule of US Law

    Ouisch - you are a genius if you figured that out from the OP!

    I also believe that he heard "beyond a reasonable doubt."

  6. #6
    BobK's Avatar
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    Default Re: Rule of US Law

    Ignore my poisonous tree - that's another principle. Go with 'Beyond a reasonable doubt'. The 'doubt' is the "bug" and the "loaf" is the case at law.

    b

  7. #7
    Raymott's Avatar
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    Default Re: Rule of US Law

    Quote Originally Posted by thedaffodils View Post
    I read a Chinese comment about the rule of the US law. I try to translate it from Chinese to English as below for your reference.

    There should just only a bug in the loaf. (The whole loaf will be dumped.)

    In light of the rule, if there's an evidence which has been proofed incredibly against the defendant, all the other evidences will be not adopted by the court.

    I wonder what the exact rule in English is if you can have some idea according to my words.

    Many thanks!
    Daffy,
    I think you are obviously not referring to "reasonable doubt". You are referring to a prosecution case being thrown out on the basis of one piece of evidence being obtained illegally by police.
    (I won't pretend to understand about the bugs and loaves though Nor do I know whether this happens in the US law system).

  8. #8
    thedaffodils's Avatar
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    Default Re: Rule of US Law

    Hi all,

    I appreciate you were all enthusiastic about trying to help me out with different suggestions. I am sorry I just found I somehow misread a word in Chinese; that is "noodle" but not "loaf".

    I have tried to search it via Google with different English key word "noodle", "bug", "a", etc. with the Chinese version, but got nothing. But I found the saying in Chinese in a famous Chinese lawyer's website.

    I think Raymott's suggestion is close to what I read. Anyway, I'm happy to learn another knowledge about the law from you all. Thank you very much again for your attention.

    Have a good one!

  9. #9
    Soup's Avatar
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    Default Re: Rule of US Law

    Quote Originally Posted by thedaffodils View Post
    Hi all,
    I am sorry I just found I somehow misread a word in Chinese; that is "noodle" but not "loaf".
    You know, the Chinese idiom, a bug in the noodles (?), sounds quite similar to a fly in the soup, an imperfection that appears, a drawback that is not at first apparent; an inconvenience that detracts from the usefulness of something.

  10. #10
    thedaffodils's Avatar
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    Default Re: Rule of US Law

    Quote Originally Posted by Soup View Post
    You know, the Chinese idiom, a bug in the noodles (?), sounds quite similar to a fly in the soup, an imperfection that appears, a drawback that is not at first apparent; an inconvenience that detracts from the usefulness of something.
    Good evening, Soup!

    Thank you for your reply. Yes, I've learned about the Chinese saying about 'a fly in the soup'. That is quite close. But it is very clearly stated that is a rule/principle of US law in a report of news.

    I have a Chinese net pal, who is indeed proficient in the both languages -Chinese and English with broad knowledge. I guess he must live in the US for many years. Maybe I can ask him if I have a chance to talk to him in the future.

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