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Thread: The King and I

  1. #1
    Scholes Guest

    Default The King and I

    Is it "him and I" or "him and me"? I say the latter.

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    Default Re: The King and I

    i think the correct form grammatically is
    him and me

  3. #3
    jctgf is offline Key Member
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    Default Re: The King and I

    Just a student.

    Very interesting question.

    I think the grammatical way is "he and I" when it's the subject of the sentence: "He and I have had some really good talks since you've been gone.".

    According to COCA, "him and me" is also possible but not as the subject: "Don't you know about him and me?". In this case, I wonder what part of speech it is. Object of the sentence?

    Just a student.

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    Thumbs up Re: The King and I

    Quote Originally Posted by jctgf View Post
    Just a student.

    Very interesting question.

    I think the grammatical way is "he and I" when it's the subject of the sentence: "He and I have had some really good talks since you've been gone.".

    According to COCA, "him and me" is also possible but not as the subject: "Don't you know about him and me?". In this case, I wonder what part of speech it is. Object of the sentence?

    Just a student.
    The topic is as old as the hills, I mean from time to time, somebody brings it up again to discussion. But as jctgf said, this is the way the pronouns are meant to be used within the phrase:

    he and I in subject position
    him and me in object position


  5. #5
    Clark is offline Key Member
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    Default Re: The King and I

    Also:
    adverbial position: He stopped behind me.
    predicative position: Who is it? - It is me.

    In conversational English, personal pronouns in the objective case can be used even as part of a subject group:
    You and me should have a talk.

    There are also so-called cleft-sentences like:
    It was he/him who/that was wrong.

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    jctgf is offline Key Member
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    Default Re: The King and I

    Quote Originally Posted by Clark View Post
    There are also so-called cleft-sentences like:
    It was he/him who/that was wrong.
    Is that why it's correct to answer a phone call with "It's him!" instead of "It's he!" ?
    Thanks.

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    colloquium is offline Senior Member
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    Default Re: The King and I

    On the theme of "to be", according to traditional grammar:

    "to be" should link two noun phrases of the same case, whether this be nominative or
    accusative:


    • I believe that he is I.
    • Who do you believe that he is?
    • I believe him to be me.
    • Whom do you believe him to be?


    It is me is technically wrong, but the most common way of expressing such a meaning (we don't pay a lot of attention to grammatical case in modern English)

    AUE: FAQ excerpt: "It's me" vs "It is I"

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    jctgf is offline Key Member
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    Default Re: The King and I

    Quote Originally Posted by colloquium View Post
    we don't pay a lot of attention to grammatical case in modern English
    Thanks.
    Nice to know that English is an informal language nowadays. The student's problem is that, from times to times, they meet a native that is very demanding about the grammatical rules. In this case, the student doesn't know how to proceed and wonders: "should I speak the same way I hear people speaking or should I speak in the grammatical way?". What's your opinion, please?
    Thanks again.

  9. #9
    colloquium is offline Senior Member
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    Default Re: The King and I

    Quote Originally Posted by jctgf View Post
    Thanks.
    Nice to know that English is an informal language nowadays. The student's problem is that, from times to times, they meet a native that is very demanding about the grammatical rules. In this case, the student doesn't know how to proceed and wonders: "should I speak the same way I hear people speaking or should I speak in the grammatical way?". What's your opinion, please?
    Thanks again.
    Well, it's a matter of register.

    You must ask yourself: "what does the person I am speaking to expect?"

    If you are having a chat with a friend, you can use colloquialisms and bend the rules. However if you're speaking to your boss, proper English will be the clearest form of communication.

    Aside from being evidence of an education, proper English is the most standardized and therefore clear way to use the language. This must apply to all languages.

    *quick note: time to time not times to times*

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