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Thread: "and" needed?

  1. #1
    timetogrow is offline Newbie
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    Default "and" needed?

    Dear teachers,

    I am very interested in English language and i am an avid reader.

    Now i have a question that i would like to consult you. My question is:

    Can you please tell me which one of the following sentences is commom and grammatically correct?

    1) Chris was bouncing wildly in the saddle, his lance jerking up and down, his body swaying from side to side.

    2) Chris was bouncing wildly in the saddle, his lance jerking up and down, and his body swaying from side to side.

    Can you please tell me if i need to add "and" between the above two Absolute Construction"? Thanks!

    Also :

    1) She stood like a patient ox, aware that the joke was on her, dumbly embarrassed but unsurprised.

    2) She stood like a patient ox, aware that the joke was on her, and dumbly embarrassed but unsurprised.

    Do i need to add "and" after the comma? I read these sentences in the fiction without "and". I remember when i studied English in school, my teacher told me that we needed to add "and" between them. Is it correct? Thanks!

  2. #2
    bhaisahab's Avatar
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    Default Re: "and" needed?

    Quote Originally Posted by timetogrow View Post
    Dear teachers,

    I am very interested in English language and i am an avid reader.

    Now i have a question that i would like to consult you. My question is:

    Can you please tell me which one of the following sentences is commom and grammatically correct?

    1) Chris was bouncing wildly in the saddle, his lance jerking up and down, his body swaying from side to side.

    2) Chris was bouncing wildly in the saddle, his lance jerking up and down, and his body swaying from side to side.

    Can you please tell me if i need to add "and" between the above two Absolute Construction"? Thanks!

    Also :

    1) She stood like a patient ox, aware that the joke was on her, dumbly embarrassed but unsurprised.

    2) She stood like a patient ox, aware that the joke was on her, and dumbly embarrassed but unsurprised.

    Do i need to add "and" after the comma? I read these sentences in the fiction without "and". I remember when i studied English in school, my teacher told me that we needed to add "and" between them. Is it correct? Thanks!
    No, you don't need 'and'the senteces are better without it in both cases.

  3. #3
    timetogrow is offline Newbie
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    Default Re: "and" needed?

    Quote Originally Posted by bhaisahab View Post
    No, you don't need 'and'the senteces are better without it in both cases.
    Thank you so much bhaisahab! how about this sentence?

    Soliders in maroon and gray methodically searched every corner of the room, looking beneath the rotating cyclinders and under the banging hammers, feeling the walls for secret compartments in the stone, and rummaging through the chests of the tools.

    Compared with the above-mentioned two similar sentences, the "and" is present at the back of this sentence. Is it because there are three Adverbial Clauses instead of two so we need to add "and" among it? Can you tell me when to add "and" properly in such sentence construction? thank you.
    Last edited by timetogrow; 20-Feb-2009 at 09:57.

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    Default Re: "and" needed?

    I like apples and oranges.
    I like apples, oranges and pears.
    I like apples, oranges, pears and bananas.

    So - when you have a list of items, or descriptions of actions, the last one is separated with an 'and'.
    Hence, in your sentence:
    Soliders in maroon and gray methodically searched every corner of the room, looking beneath the rotating cyclinders and under the banging hammers, feeling the walls for secret compartments in the stone, and rummaging through the chests of the tools.

    "...corner of the room, 1, 2, and 3."
    you have given 3 descriptions of what they were doing, and correctly included the 'and' before the last of them.

    In your sentence:
    2) She stood like a patient ox, aware that the joke was on her, and dumbly embarrassed but unsurprised.
    You have correctly included the 'and'.
    All of that being grammatically so, does not deter a writer from breaking the 'rules' to achieve a literary effect.
    Let's look at your sentence: if you omit the 'and', then "dumbly embarrassed..." seems just tacked on at the end, less important. By including the 'and', it emphases BOTH : that awful realization that the joke is on her, and the squirming sensation of embarrassment. Better to stick to the 'rule' and include it since it actually adds to the impact of the sentence.
    To explain that a little further:
    You were late today, yesterday, and last Friday.
    compare that with the boss saying:
    You were late today, and yesterday, and last Friday.
    where the 'ands' are stressed, and the extra 'and' emphasizes each instance of tardiness. So, by including more 'ands' than grammar would require, the speaker is making a more dramatic statement.

    This is similar to your sentence:
    Chris was bouncing wildly in the saddle, his lance jerking up and down, his body swaying from side to side.
    Here, by OMITTING the 'and', the writing style contributes to the sense of continuous motion, with no interruption in being bounced around, up, down, left, right, all over the place, just as you would observe on a bucking horse. Hence, here, the omission adds to the dramatic picture you are painting with words. Rather than separate distinct actions -lance jerking and body swaying - it gives the effect that all these actions are going on simultaneously (which they are!)
    Last edited by David L.; 20-Feb-2009 at 14:31.

  5. #5
    Charlie Bernstein is offline Senior Member
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    Default Re: "and" needed?

    Quote Originally Posted by timetogrow View Post
    Dear teachers,

    I am very interested in English language and i am an avid reader.

    Now i have a question that i would like to consult with you about. My question is:

    Can you please tell me which two of the following sentences are common and grammatically correct?

    1) Chris was bouncing wildly in the saddle, his lance jerking up and down, his body swaying from side to side. Correct.

    2) Chris was bouncing wildly in the saddle, his lance jerking up and down, and his body swaying from side to side. Wrong.

    Can you please tell me if i need to add "and" between the above two Absolute Construction"? No. Thanks! You're welcome!

    Also :

    1) She stood like a patient ox, aware that the joke was on her, dumbly embarrassed but unsurprised. Correct.

    2) She stood like a patient ox, aware that the joke was on her, and dumbly embarrassed but unsurprised. Wrong.

    Do i need to add "and" after the comma? No. I read these sentences in the fiction without "and." I remember when i studied English in school, my teacher told me that we needed to add "and" between them. Is it correct? No. Thanks!
    Use "and" only for lists and series.

    [I edit copy and have tutored college writing.]

  6. #6
    bhaisahab's Avatar
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    Default Re: "and" needed?

    Quote Originally Posted by Charlie Bernstein View Post
    Use "and" only for lists and series.

    [I edit copy and have tutored college writing.]

  7. #7
    Charlie Bernstein is offline Senior Member
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    Default Re: "and" needed?

    Quote Originally Posted by David L. View Post
    I like apples and oranges.
    I like apples, oranges and pears.
    I like apples, oranges, pears and bananas.
    Good example. Just to add some trivia, in the U.S. we generally prefer to use what's called the Oxford comma: a comma before the and in a list or series of three or more:

    I like apples, oranges, and pears.

    The purpose is to avoid confusion in more complex sentences (which that was not). It's not wrong to leave it out, however. Consistency is more important. American newspapers never use the Oxford comma. They think they're saving space. Or ink. Or paper. Or something.

  8. #8
    timetogrow is offline Newbie
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    Default Re: "and" needed?

    Quote Originally Posted by Charlie Bernstein View Post
    Use "and" only for lists and series.

    [I edit copy and have tutored college writing.]

    thank you for your corrections.

  9. #9
    timetogrow is offline Newbie
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    Default Re: "and" needed?

    Quote Originally Posted by bhaisahab View Post
    Thank you bhaisahab

  10. #10
    timetogrow is offline Newbie
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    Default Re: "and" needed?

    Quote Originally Posted by Charlie Bernstein View Post
    Use "and" only for lists and series.

    [I edit copy and have tutored college writing.]

    Could you please explain further what it means by using "and" only for lists and series?

    In this description "his lance jerking up and down, his body swaying from side to side". I think these two clauses are similar in construction and can it be called lists and series?

    thank you.

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