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  1. #1
    Drinnie is offline Newbie
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    Smile Separable & Inseparable phrasal verbs

    Hi,

    I am going to report about phrasal verbs and i want to know what are the rules in telling a PV is separable and inseparable.Thanks.

  2. #2
    svartnik is offline Banned
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    Re: Separable & Inseparable phrasal verbs

    Quote Originally Posted by Drinnie View Post
    Hi,

    I am going to report about phrasal verbs and i want to know what are the rules in telling a PV is separable and inseparable.Thanks.
    This is what I wrote in another forum about this:

    Syntactically pv's can be categorized thus:

    1.INSEPARABLE
    2.SEPARABLE
    2.a. SEPARABLE OBLIGATORY =(-1)*1.
    2.b. SEPARABLE OPTIONAL
    3. INTRANSITIVE (no object)

    ---------------
    ---------------

    There are two sub-categories for separable pv's (2.):

    2.a. SEPARABLE OBLIGATORY: verb and particle are always to be separated.

    Get in with the meaning "to arrange for someone to do a job in your home" is separable obligatory:

    We must get a plumber in to fix the pipe.
    or
    We must get him in to...
    and NOT
    We must get in a plumber to fix the pipe.
    and NOT
    We must get in him to fix the pipe.
    --------------
    2.b. SEPARABLE OPTIONAL PHRASAL VERBS:
    I say "with the meaning" because "get in" with another meaning: "to bring sg, sy inside a place" is separable optional. It means the separation is OPTIONAL when the object is NOT a pronoun:

    Get the kids in
    Get in the kids
    Get in the clothes
    Get the clothes in

    However, if the object of the pv is a long noun phrase, NEVER split the pv:
    I throw away "everything that's on the floor."("" = long noun phrase, object of pv)
    and NOT
    I throw everything that is on the floor away.

    If the object is a pronoun, always separate!

    Get them in (them=clothes)
    but NOT
    get in them

    or

    pick them up (them = the guys)
    but NOT
    pick up them
    -------------
    -------------

    1. INSEPARABLE PV'S: DO NOT EVER separate them:

    I come across this gold watch accidentally.
    and NOT
    I come this gold watch across accidentally.
    and NOT
    I come it across accidentally.

    Besides 1. (inseparable pv's) there is another category of pv's that is outside the separable set:
    --------------
    --------------

    3. INTRANSITIVE PHRASAL VERBS
    "get in" = "to arrive" (yet another meaning) is an INTRANSITIVE PHRASAL VERB with no object, thus no separation:

    The train got in at 10.
    -------------
    -------------

    I hope this helps.

    Phrasal verbs... What a minefield!
    There are no rules for which category a phrasal verb belongs. How sad. You have to play it by ear.


    Let "x" be the verb and "y" the particle.
    Let "Op" be the object (pronoun) of the pv.

    xOpy
    xyOp

    Is it possible that both are right? No!
    Why?

    xOpy means the pv is either Sep oblig. or Sep. opt, right?
    If the former is the case, xyOp can't be correct, because of the definition (obligatory). If the latter is true, it means the pronoun have to split the pv into two parts. Thus, xyOp is incorrect again.

    QED.

  3. #3
    dab14763 is offline Newbie
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    Re: Separable & Inseparable phrasal verbs

    Hi Drinnie,

    To add to what Svartnik has said,

    1) Concerning the particle:

    Whether a phrasal verb is separable or not depends on whether the particle is an adverb or a preposition. If it is an adverb, it is separable. if it is a preposition, it is not.

    In the following incomplete lists of particles (check a dictionary to see if it is an adverb or preposition or either for any I may have missed).....

    a)These particles are adverbs so the phrasal verb is separable:

    ahead, apart, aside, away, back, forward, home, out

    "set aside the money. set the money aside. set it aside"

    b)These particles are prepositions so the phrasal verb is not separable:

    after, against, at, for, from, into, of, out of, to*, with, without

    "look after the children. look after them"

    *Though there is the one off "pull/push the door/window to" meaning to close a door or window.


    c) These particles can be adverbs or prepositions so in some phrasal verbs they are separable and in some they are not:

    about, across, along, (a)round, before, behind, by, down, in, inside, near, off, on, outside, over, past, through, under, up.

    With these you just have to learn if the particle is separable or not. The same phrasal verb can be separable in one meaning and inseparable in another. But see 2) below...

    "she got in the car. she got in it"
    "she got in the washing. she got the washing in. she got it in"


    Other points to consider regarding particles:

    -Phrasal verbs made up of two particles are never separable

    -For prepositions in b) and c) note also the pattern verb sb/sth prep sth/doing sth:

    "She talked me into investing £50000"
    "They named the boat after their uncle"
    "He spilt the coffee over the carpet"

    -Some grammarians will distinguish and use the term phrasal verb only for those with an adverb particle. For prepositional particles they use the term prepositional verb.


    2) Concerning the verb:

    If the verb is intransitive eg verbs of movement such as 'come', 'go', 'fall' , then the particle is inseparable. This helps with the particles in c) above

    "Sue came across an old friend last week. She came across him in Thailand"

    and it means that phrasal verbs formed with intransitive verbs and the adverb particles in a) above never have objects.


    "The missing woman has come forward"

    David

  4. #4
    Drinnie is offline Newbie
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    Thumbs up Re: Separable & Inseparable phrasal verbs

    many thanks my friend:)really appreciate your help

  5. #5
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    RonBee is offline Moderator
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    Re: Separable & Inseparable phrasal verbs

    Quote Originally Posted by Drinnie View Post
    Hi,

    I am doing a report about phrasal verbs, and I want to know what are the rules in telling whether a PV is separable or inseparable.


    Sometimes you can use logic to determine whether a separable verb is separable or inseparable. ("She got in the car" is clearly different from "She got the car in".) However, as Svartnik said, you generally have to play it by ear.


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