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  1. #11
    cubezero3's Avatar
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    Default Re: What does the auther express when using Past & Present Perfect in this paragraph

    The masters of the English language. Please, give me a hand.
    I know I've put down so many questions. If you can help me with only a few of them. That would be much appreciated.

  2. #12
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    Default Re: What does the auther express when using Past & Present Perfect in this paragraph

    Most forums such as this one ask for individual questions, such as one distinct question per post, so that we can easily help. A long long list of points is harder to format and answer. And takes a long time.

  3. #13
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    Default Re: What does the auther express when using Past & Present Perfect in this paragraph

    I see. I've been here for only a few weeks. Then I know what I should do. Thank you very much for telling me that. Next time I would only post with one or tw questions.

  4. #14
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    Default Re: What does the auther express when using Past & Present Perfect in this paragraph

    I see how eager you are, and as the others have mentioned...please don't overwhelm us with all your questions at once: sometimes we can see quite a lot needs to be done just to help you understand just one question.

    But, I did say, I'd match your eagerness to learn with my readiness to help. The first we'll work on is:
    comes ----> came
    The change in the numbers of appeals obviously happened before the present time. And the time for the action is implied in the text, which is between the time when ministers manifested on the issue and the time when the report was written. The present tenses are not propriate here.


    Then we'll work through the text gradually, step at a time.
    (I'm just checking on what's happening in the forum, before I settle down for the night: I'll tackle this tomorrow - promise!
    Last edited by David L.; 14-May-2009 at 20:46.

  5. #15
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    Default Re: What does the auther express when using Past & Present Perfect in this paragraph

    I don't know what I can say to express my gratitude, David. Thank you and I promise I will pass the knowledge on to others who're in need of it.

    And don't worry about your reply. I shall be ever patient and during the same time dig a bit deeper to read what have been put down before. I guess the answers for many of my questions probably have long remained in threads posted.

    Then again, thanks for the generous help from every one here.

    Bow like an ancient Chinese scholar.

  6. #16
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    Default Re: What does the auther express when using Past & Present Perfect in this paragraph

    Note the headline for this article:
    Popular state schools are coming under increasing pressure from desperate parents to admit their children.

    The author uses the Present Continuous tense. This conveys to the reader that this pressure had a beginning in the past, is still in evidence NOW, and will continue until the issue is addressed and the matter is resolved, and the event comes to an end.

    In the opening paragraph, the reporter notes:
    The number of appeals … has jumped by 16 per cent on a year ago…
    The appeals for this current year were lodged before NOW – the time of writing this report - but the outcome of the appeals is still pending, still an ongoing matter. So, by then using the Present tense “The rise comes after ministers urged families to appeal…”, the reporter maintains this sense of immediacy : yes, the appeals were lodged some time ago, but this rise means is that more parents are angry (that instead of the school of their choice, they have been offered an ‘inferior’ school); and that the outcome of the appeals is still ongoing and of great immediate relevance to these parents.

    You’re right: we can locate events in time –Past, Present, Future - in terms of time according to the clock; but we also locate events in terms of how we ourselves view the event.
    Consider: we hurry towards the bus stop, but see the bus pull out and drive off. I could say, “Damn, we’ve missed our bus.” Equally, I could say, “There goes our bus.”
    The first perspective places the event in the Past; the second perspective on the very same event reports it in the Present tense.
    I would use the Past tense if I saw the whole idea of catching that particular bus as past - we tried, we failed, it’s over. We simply wait for the next bus.
    But if my perspective is ‘there goes the bus that was going to get us to the railway station to catch our train. If we don’t think quickly about what to do now, we’re going to miss our train. Have we time to wait for another bus, or should be take a taxi?’ Here, this whole event is not over – the issue with the bus is only one aspect of a much larger event that is going on: getting to the station on time; and that event is not over, finished, done!

    So – when the reporter writes: “The rise comes…” his perspective is not that some time ago, figures were compared, those from last year and those for this year, and a rise was noted. His perspective of the issue is much wider, taking in how relevant this still is to his readers: the parents who lodged these appeals and still awaiting to hear the outcome; AND those parents of children approaching high school age, reading this article because they will be in the same predicament next year, and interested in how successful the protests and appeals will be. All highly relevant stuff, far from done and dusted to the readers! The rise in number of appeals indicates that there is a lot of emotion surrounding this issue, and that this highly-charged emotional topic is far from over since the outcome of the appeals is unknown…and then, whether parents will be up in arms if the appeals are unsuccessful and mount a campaign...
    As you can see, this is not some Past event about the date appeals were lodged and figures compared and a rise noted.

    Let's summarize: the headline uses Present Continuous, and the ongoing event/action/happening is 'increasing pressure from parents' - this is the much wider, broader event/issue. Present Continuous tense indicates the perspective of the event as:
    1. having a beginning: this was the point at which, after parents began sending in letters of appeal, the number surpassed last year's number of appeals.
    2. ongoing : parents are waiting for replies, and somewhere in the middle of this, the reporter becomes aware of the story.
    3. having a foreseeable end : when parents are informed of the outcome of their appeals.
    Hence, visually:
    .....Past..............<larger number of appeals---------------story appears--------parents waiting---------outcome>|.....Future........
    where <> indicates some current (Present tense) ongoing event.
    Then, 'The rise comes..." indicates that the increase in number of appeals (the rise) is actually the start of this current situation, the actual beginning of the event being referred to with the use of the Present Continuous! - not some event happening prior to all of this.
    Last edited by David L.; 16-May-2009 at 03:23.

  7. #17
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    Default Re: What does the auther express when using Past & Present Perfect in this paragraph

    Thanks David, I've copied these words to my PMP and would read it at home.

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    Default Re: What does the auther express when using Past & Present Perfect in this paragraph

    Note that I have added a summary to the post.

  9. #19
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    Default Re: What does the auther express when using Past & Present Perfect in this paragraph

    You're still awake. It's gotta to be around 3 in the UK. David, I suppose this might be harmful for your health. As to me, I've just decided to commit all these to writing, although I'd have to work shortly afterwards. Looking forward to hearing from you again. But please don't sleep late at night just because of my request. I would feel guilty for this.

  10. #20
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    Default Re: What does the auther express when using Past & Present Perfect in this paragraph

    Copying finished!

    It's the first time I am introduced to this idea of perspective. Though, I knew in every language the existence of each single grammar element itself meant to convey some specific meaning. Really a whole new world for me. I guess I'd have to go through the report more times and think it over and over again. Because I can sense there're already strange ideas arising in my mind such as: Since people can always consider a bigger picture, the use of the present tense should become dominant in writing.

    Thanks again.

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