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  1. engee30's Avatar
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    #11

    Smile Re: question for linguists, please

    Quote Originally Posted by jirikoo View Post
    Hey guys,

    I am trying to atomize this sentence:

    She has not taken her hands off me all night.

    Can you help me.

    1) What is the direct object in this sentence? her hands
    2) Supposing her hands is the direct object , what is the personal pronoun me to the phrasal verb take off? the object of the preposition off


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    #12

    Re: question for linguists, please

    Thank you eng. For the first time in this life, we seem to see eye-to-eye over a grammatical question.

    Let us call it a day. Good night.

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    #13

    Re: question for linguists, please

    Quote Originally Posted by svartnik View Post
    He took off her clothes. Where did he take her clothes? Off??! --> It is a pv

    He took her hands off me. Where did he take his hands? He took it off me. --> prep verb

    The two take off's are different.



    This is also mine:

    Flo-Joe Discussion Forums


    Ok, never mind, lets just make an exemplary sentence out of your own sentences.

    I got a plumber in my house.

    What is "my house" to the phrasal verb "got in"?
    Last edited by jirikoo; 07-May-2009 at 22:10.

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    #14

    Re: question for linguists, please

    Quote Originally Posted by svartnik View Post
    Thank you eng. For the first time in this life, we seem to see eye-to-eye over a grammatical question.

    Let us call it a day. Good night.

    along the way im coming upon some other obligatorily separable phrasal verbs i did not speak of.

    All phrasal verbs with "apart"

  2. engee30's Avatar
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    #15

    Smile Re: question for linguists, please

    Quote Originally Posted by svartnik View Post
    Thank you eng. For the first time in this life, we seem to see eye-to-eye over a grammatical question.

    Let us call it a day. Good night.
    So long as we have the same approach to English grammar we're bound to agree, Svartnik.
    To my way of thinking, any verb that is used with the preposition is called a prepositional verb. Any prepositional verb that has idiomatic meaning is called a phrasal verb.


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    #16

    Re: question for linguists, please

    Quote Originally Posted by engee30 View Post
    So long as we have the same approach to English grammar we're bound to agree, Svartnik.
    To my way of thinking, any verb that is used with the preposition is called a prepositional verb. Any prepositional verb that has idiomatic meaning is called a phrasal verb.
    Yes, you go along with Collins Cobuild, who state all idiomatic prep verbs belong to the pv category.
    But there exists another approach to pv's (CGEL) which does not include in their class the prep verbs.

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    #17

    Re: question for linguists, please

    Quote Originally Posted by engee30 View Post
    So long as we have the same approach to English grammar we're bound to agree, Svartnik.
    To my way of thinking, any verb that is used with the preposition is called a prepositional verb. Any prepositional verb that has idiomatic meaning is called a phrasal verb.

    I wish it was simple like that. you see, in english there many abnormalities, especially in terms of obligatorily separable phrasal verbs changing into optionally separable by making them phrasal verbs with prepositions.

    I can' take my eyes off of you. - forging an optionally separable phrasal verb

    ...and also the 'famous' confusion about "in to" <-> "into"
    Give into - obligatorily separable
    Give in (to) - possibly optionally separable

    out of this, there are some exceptions, such as "talk out" - always obligatorily separable

  3. engee30's Avatar
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    #18

    Post Re: question for linguists, please

    Quote Originally Posted by jirikoo View Post
    I can' take my eyes off of you. - forging an optionally separable phrasal verb
    That one seems an American-like prepositional phrase, off of you.


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    #19

    Re: question for linguists, please

    Quote Originally Posted by jirikoo View Post
    Ok, never mind, lets just make an exemplary sentence out of your own sentences.

    I got a plumber in my house.

    What is "my house" to the phrasal verb "got in"?
    this get in is not that get in:
    Cambridge Dictionaries Online - Cambridge University Press

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    #20

    Re: question for linguists, please

    Quote Originally Posted by svartnik View Post
    Yes, you go along with Collins Cobuild, who state all idiomatic prep verbs belong to the pv category.
    But there exists another approach to pv's (CGEL) which does not include in their class the prep verbs.

    also feeling there is sometimes a fine line between prepositional verbs and phrasal verbs

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