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  1. #31
    svartnik is offline Banned
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    Default Re: question for linguists, please

    yes, "into the action" modifies the verb "talk" -- > function: adverb phrase; lexical category: prep phrase

    There is something that is still not very clear to me:

    "talk into" is a "semantic unit"
    into the action looks like a prep phrase that is branched off the main road, if you catch my drift

    I cannot really reconcile these ideas.

  2. #32
    jirikoo is offline Member
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    Default Re: question for linguists, please

    sorry i meant "an individual prepositional phrase in the context"

    according to this website prepositional phrases are inseparable

    Prepositional Verbs

    basing on this, talk into would be a prepositional phrase

  3. #33
    svartnik is offline Banned
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    Default Re: question for linguists, please

    Quote Originally Posted by jirikoo View Post

    basing on this, talk into would be a prepositional phrase
    Hardly surprising, given the lexical category of "into" (a preposition).

    There is something that is still not very clear to me:

    "talk into" is a "semantic unit"
    into the action looks like a prep phrase that is branched off the main road, if you catch my drift

    I cannot really reconcile these ideas.

  4. #34
    jirikoo is offline Member
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    Default Re: question for linguists, please

    Quote Originally Posted by svartnik View Post
    Hardly surprising, given the lexical category of "into" (a preposition).

    There is something that is still not very clear to me:

    "talk into" is a "semantic unit"
    into the action looks like a prep phrase that is branched off the main road, if you catch my drift

    I cannot really reconcile these ideas.

    yeah, "into the action" could be possibly the preposition phrase being the modifier (called adverbial). Head of the phrase is just the preposition "into"

    ------------------
    just looking at the definition of prepositional verb at: Prepositional Verbs

    its pretty twisted there, because their claim that for example wait for is a transitive verb in the form "John is waiting for Mary", with "Mary" being a direct object, which is nonsensical. Wait for is indeed a prepositional verb BUT: I believe, prepositional verbs are verbs bearing preposition objects only - no direct objects.


    Further, they set an example of "look after" as being a prepositional phrase. Again, i think, its a inseparable phrasal verb. In this context, there is only a fine line between them, though.

  5. #35
    svartnik is offline Banned
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    Default Re: question for linguists, please

    if you look at this diagramm, you cannot see the unity, the state of cohering of the two words (talk + into), which is present semantically. That is what vexes me.

    Click image for larger version. 

Name:	taalk in.gif 
Views:	3 
Size:	3.7 KB 
ID:	674

  6. #36
    jirikoo is offline Member
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    Default Re: question for linguists, please

    Quote Originally Posted by svartnik View Post
    if you look at this diagramm, you cannot see the unity, the state of cohering of the two words (talk + into), which is present semantically. That is what vexes me.

    Click image for larger version. 

Name:	taalk in.gif 
Views:	3 
Size:	3.7 KB 
ID:	674

    talk into is for me clearly a phrasal verb obligatorily separable.

    into the action just cannot be a modifier since i makes no sense to say i talked him

    it clears things up a bit

  7. #37
    svartnik is offline Banned
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    Default Re: question for linguists, please

    Quote Originally Posted by jirikoo View Post
    "John is waiting for Mary", with "Mary" being a direct object, which is nonsensical.

    There are different approaches to explaining grammar and we are exposed to the divergence of opinions.

  8. #38
    jirikoo is offline Member
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    Default Re: question for linguists, please

    Quote Originally Posted by svartnik View Post
    if you look at this diagramm, you cannot see the unity, the state of cohering of the two words (talk + into), which is present semantically. That is what vexes me.

    Click image for larger version. 

Name:	taalk in.gif 
Views:	3 
Size:	3.7 KB 
ID:	674
    talk to sb. is a typical example of prepositional verb

  9. #39
    svartnik is offline Banned
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    Default Re: question for linguists, please

    Quote Originally Posted by jirikoo View Post
    talk into is for me clearly a phrasal verb obligatorily separable.

    into the action just cannot be a modifier since i makes no sense to say i talked him

    it clears things up a bit
    "this action," what is it in this sentence apart from an object of prep? What is its function? What does it do in the sentence?

  10. #40
    jirikoo is offline Member
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    Default Re: question for linguists, please

    Quote Originally Posted by svartnik View Post
    There are different approaches to explaining grammar and we are exposed to the divergence of opinions.

    you are right

    thanks for your time, im going to get to sleep, wayyy too tired


    coming back to wait for -

    cambridge says it a phrasal verb

    this site wait - definition of wait by the Free Online Dictionary, Thesaurus and Encyclopedia. says its not - its just an intransitive verb

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