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  1. anupumh's Avatar
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    #11

    Re: Challenge against Standard English

    What are your views on another english variety, Indian English. With increasing number of companies outsourcing business/voice process/customer support to India. Native speakers invariebly get exposed to Indian English to get their queries resolved. Prof David Crystal in one of his article predicts that certain flavors of Indian English (excessive usage of present progressive) would be a part of normal standard english and would become acceptable world over.


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    #12

    Re: Challenge against Standard English

    Quote Originally Posted by orangutan View Post
    I wouldn't call it a lie - different students have different needs.
    Would you be so kind as to explain how student needs enters into this?


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    #13

    Re: Challenge against Standard English

    Quote Originally Posted by anupumh View Post
    What are your views on another english variety, Indian English. With increasing number of companies outsourcing business/voice process/customer support to India. Native speakers invariebly get exposed to Indian English to get their queries resolved. Prof David Crystal in one of his article predicts that certain flavors of Indian English (excessive usage of present progressive) would be a part of normal standard english and would become acceptable world over.
    Which Indian English are you referring to?
    Indian English
    Hinglish; Punjabi/Delhi English; U.P/Bihari English; Bengali/Assamese English; Benglish; Oriya English; Gujarati English; Maharashtrian English; Kannadiga English; Telugu English; Tamil English;

    Taken from China EFL: The Four Great Lies China Holistic English

    Call centers set up in China hire people from India because their English is so much better than Chinglish.




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    #14

    Re: Challenge against Standard English

    Quote Originally Posted by MW View Post
    Would you be so kind as to explain how student needs enters into this?
    It is very simple. You claimed it was a lie that students needed to master standard English and that "chinglish" wasn't good enough. Chinglish may be good enough for some students' purposes, but some need and/or want to master standard English.

  2. anupumh's Avatar
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    #15

    Re: Challenge against Standard English

    Quote Originally Posted by MW View Post
    Which Indian English are you referring to?
    Indian English
    Hinglish; Punjabi/Delhi English; U.P/Bihari English; Bengali/Assamese English; Benglish; Oriya English; Gujarati English; Maharashtrian English; Kannadiga English; Telugu English; Tamil English;

    Taken from China EFL: The Four Great Lies China Holistic English

    Call centers set up in China hire people from India because their English is so much better than Chinglish.


    Indian English is the only one which is recognized, accepted and exists, rest of them are mere terms and do not represent a pure language or dilect.

    Check these interesting articles..

    Here are some interesting articles on the same

    Indian English
    Amardeep Singh: Indian English -- Does It Exist? What Do We Call It?
    http://www.davidcrystal.com/DC_articles/English5.pdf
    http://www.davidcrystal.com/DC_articles/English19.pdf
    Thank you, come again - Indian English set to become major dialect | Über Desi
    ELT - Cambridge University Press
    http://www.stormfront.org/forum/showthread.php?t=158377

  3. anupumh's Avatar
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    #16

    Re: Challenge against Standard English

    Quote Originally Posted by MW View Post
    Which Indian English are you referring to?
    Indian English
    Hinglish; Punjabi/Delhi English; U.P/Bihari English; Bengali/Assamese English; Benglish; Oriya English; Gujarati English; Maharashtrian English; Kannadiga English; Telugu English; Tamil English;

    Taken from China EFL: The Four Great Lies China Holistic English

    Call centers set up in China hire people from India because their English is so much better than Chinglish.


    Indian English is the only one which is recognized, accepted and exists, rest of them are mere terms and do not represent a pure language or dilect.

    Check these interesting articles..


    http://www.davidcrystal.com/DC_articles/English5.pdf
    http://www.davidcrystal.com/DC_articles/English19.pdf
    ELT - Cambridge University Press
    'Indian English will become most spoken form of English' - Stormfront


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    #17

    Re: Challenge against Standard English

    Quote Originally Posted by orangutan View Post
    It is very simple. You claimed it was a lie that students needed to master standard English and that "chinglish" wasn't good enough. Chinglish may be good enough for some students' purposes, but some need and/or want to master standard English.
    Interesting - you went to the refrenced website but did not read the indicated article, yet you offer your opinion?

    It is impossible to "master" English." There is no such thing as "Standard English."

    Try reading the article.


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    #18

    Re: Challenge against Standard English

    Quote Originally Posted by anupumh View Post
    Indian English is the only one which is recognized, accepted and exists, rest of them are mere terms and do not represent a pure language or dilect.

    Check these interesting articles..


    http://www.davidcrystal.com/DC_articles/English5.pdf
    http://www.davidcrystal.com/DC_articles/English19.pdf
    ELT - Cambridge University Press
    'Indian English will become most spoken form of English' - Stormfront
    First, David calls Indian English "Hinglish."
    Second, his opinion seems to be based upon a two week visit to India a couple of years ago.
    Third, I never cite anoynomous forums as authority for anything.
    Fourth, only 1/3rd of Indians speak Hinglish according to David. That leaves 900 million others speaking something else.
    Fifth, an interesting spin by a British linguist.

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    #19

    Re: Challenge against Standard English

    Quote Originally Posted by MW View Post
    Interesting - you went to the refrenced website but did not read the indicated article, yet you offer your opinion?

    It is impossible to "master" English." There is no such thing as "Standard English."

    Try reading the article.
    I was offering an opinion on the summary and opinions in your post. I don't feel like reading the whole article, thanks.
    Last edited by orangutan; 07-Sep-2009 at 17:43.


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    #20

    Re: Challenge against Standard English

    Quote Originally Posted by orangutan View Post
    I was offering an opinion on the summary and opinions in your post. I don't feel like reading the whole article, thanks.
    Let me quote some salient parts for lazy readers:

    This extreme mandate to “master” English is the exact academic pressure that Krashen identifies as inhibiting 2nd language acquisition.[1] When this academic pressure is removed, Chinese learners of English build self-confidence, intrinsic motivation, self-discipline and develop autonomous learning skills,[2] and then go on to produce comprehensible English, but not perfect English. pg. 4

    Granted, some professions demand a higher degree of English such as interpreters, translators, industrial and political spies, international lawyers, international accountants and scientists cooperating on international projects. But the average Chinese business person or common citizen has no demonstrable need for anything more than Chinglish. pg. 5

    [1] Krashen, Stephen (1981) Second Language Acquisition and 2nd Language Learning, Prentice Hall

    [2] Qiang/Wolff/Teng (2007) China EFL: Holistic English ESL in China - UsingEnglish.com accessed August 1, 2009

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